1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE NINTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT, IN AND FOR ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA CASE NUMBER: CIO-00-7265(32) LAWRENCE M. DESTEFANO, Plaintiff, vs. ADVENTIST HEALTH SYSTEM SUNBELT HEALTHCARE CORPORATION; ADVENTIST HEALTH SYSTEMS/SUNBELT, INC.; SUNBELT HEALTH CARE CENTERS, INC.; ROLLINS BEDFORD CORPORATION, d/b/a SUNBELT HEALTH CARE & SUBACUTE CENTER; SHCC SERVICES, INC., and ORLANDO REGIONAL HEALTHCARE SYSTEM, INC., Defendants. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Orlando, Florida August 27, 2004 4:06 p.m. DEPOSITION OF: SHELLY FUCHS 2 A P P E A R A N C E S: JOSEPH A. GLICK, ESQUIRE Joseph A. Glick, P.A. 9703 South Dixie Highway Second Floor Miami, Florida 33156 Appearing on behalf of the Plaintiff. DYANA L. PETRO, ATTORNEY AT LAW Gray/Robinson 301 East Pine Street Suite 1400 Orlando, Florida 32802-3068 Appearing on behalf of the Defendants, Adventist Health System Sunbelt Healthcare Corporation, Adventist Health System/Sunbelt, Inc., Sunbelt Health Care Centers, Inc., Rollins Bedford Corporation, d/b/a Sunbelt Health Care & Subacute Center, and SHCC Services, Inc. LARRY J. TOWNSEND, ESQUIRE Mateer & Harbert, P.A. 225 East Robinson Street Suite 600 2 Landmark Center Orlando, Florida 32802 Appearing on behalf of the Defendant, Orlando Regional Healthcare System, Inc. ALSO PRESENT: Lawrence M. Destefano David Gill - - - - - 3 I N D E X TESTIMONY OF SHELLY FUCHS: Direct Examination by Mr. Glick 3 Cross Examination by Mr. Townsend 51 Cross Examination by Ms. Petro 55 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 57 SUBSCRIPTION OF DEPONENT 58 E X H I B I T S By Reference Marked Plaintiff's Exhibit Number 1 12 12 Plaintiff's Exhibit Number 2 20 56 Plaintiff's Exhibit Number 3 22 56 Plaintiff's Exhibit Number 4 30 30 Plaintiff's Exhibit Number 5 30 30 4 1 The deposition of SHELLY FUCHS 2 was taken on behalf of the Plaintiff 3 on Friday, August 27, 2004, beginning 4 at 4:06 p.m., at the law offices of 5 Gray|Robinson, 301 East Pine Street, 6 Suite 1400, Orlando, Florida, before 7 Dawn R. Matter, Electronic Reporter 8 and Notary Public, State of Florida 9 at Large. 10 - - - - - 11 Whereupon, 12 SHELLY FUCHS, 13 having been first duly sworn by the reporter, testified 14 as follows: 15 DIRECT EXAMINATION 16 BY MR. GLICK: 17 Q Okay. Can you please tell me your name and 18 your address, please? 19 A My name is Shelly Fuchs, F-u-c-h-s. My 20 address is 1527 Country Court, Apopka, Florida 32703. 21 Q Apopka, Florida 32713 [sic]. 22 A Say that again? 23 Q You say 32713? 24 A 32703. 25 Q 03. I'm sorry. And, ma'am, are you 5 1 currently employed? 2 A Yes. 3 Q And tell me who you work for. 4 A I work for the Florida Army National Guard 5 and I work for Avante of Mount Dora. 6 Q What was the other name, Avante? 7 A Avante, A-v-a-n-t-e. 8 Q And what kind of business is that? 9 A It's a nursing home. 10 Q All right. And what do you do there? What 11 is your job? 12 A My title is physical therapist assistant. 13 Q All right. And what licenses or degrees do 14 you hold? 15 A I have a license of a physical therapist 16 assisting. I have a -- two associate's degrees, one of 17 them in physical therapy assistant and the other one in 18 resource management. 19 Q Okay. And do you hold any other licenses 20 like an LPN, RN or anything like that? 21 A No. 22 Q Okay. Did you ever work for Sunbelt Health 23 Care & Subacute Center located on Bedford Avenue in 24 Orlando? 25 A Yes. 6 1 Q Can you tell me during what time frame you 2 worked there? 3 A Not off the top of my head. Do you have it 4 in front of you where you could tell me? 5 Q No. Actually I don't. I know -- well, let 6 me give you a frame of reference. Do you recall Larry 7 Destefano picketing outside the front of the facility? 8 A Yes. 9 Q All right. That began in 1999. 10 A I was there then. 11 Q Okay. Do you -- for how long were you there 12 before then, if you remember? 13 A Hold on a second. 14 Q That was September '99. 15 A Approximately '97. Hold on. No. Yeah. 16 Approximately '97 I started work at that facility for 17 NovaCare, which is a rehab company, and I actually was 18 employed by Sunbelt approximately two years later, so 19 that would be around June of '99, I think. 20 Q Okay. 21 A And then I worked for approximately two years 22 after that, I believe. 23 Q Okay. So roughly -- 24 A But I could be off on time. 25 Q Okay. I won't hold you to that. 7 1 A All right. 2 Q From '97 to 2001 roughly. 3 A Sure. 4 Q And you said before that you worked for 5 NovaCare, which was a licensed -- which was a physical 6 therapy group? 7 A Yes. 8 Q And they would sort of send you there to work 9 on the residents there? 10 A Well, we worked out of that facility. 11 Q Worked out of that facility; okay. And then 12 in '99 you became a -- 13 A Sunbelt employee. 14 Q -- Sunbelt employee. And you stayed for 15 about two years. 16 A Sure. 17 Q Why did you leave? 18 A Personal reasons. 19 Q Okay. Did it have anything to do with Larry 20 Destefano and/or his mother? 21 A No. 22 Q Did it have anything to do with Rachel Bean? 23 A No. 24 Q Mary Thornton? 25 A No. 8 1 Q Okay. This case is scheduled to go to trial 2 and the case that we're involved in here is a case 3 where Mr. Destefano has filed a defamation lawsuit 4 against Sunbelt -- well, it's against several corporate 5 entities, but primarily for acts arising out of -- that 6 occurred at that nursing home. 7 The case is scheduled to begin October the 8 12th and probably will -- may last the rest of the 9 month. Are you going to be in town, do you know -- 10 A The date? Say again. 11 Q I'm sorry. October the 12th through the end 12 of October, are you going to be in the area during that 13 time or are you going to be with the National Guard or 14 somewhere else? 15 A Tentatively I am. If they call me up, I go 16 whenever they call me. 17 Q Okay. 18 A I am going to be gone for a week in November, 19 I know for sure, and then I don't remember what my 20 weekend drill is and typically I leave the Friday 21 before that, whatever that is. 22 Q Okay. 23 A But for the most part, I'll be in the State 24 of Florida so -- 25 Q Okay. 9 1 MS. PETRO: Unless we get another hurricane. 2 THE WITNESS: Unless we get another 3 hurricane. 4 BY MR. GLICK: 5 Q Prior to coming here today, did you have the 6 opportunity to discuss your deposition testimony with 7 anybody? 8 A Yes. 9 Q And who was that with? 10 A Her [indicating]. 11 Q Her, meaning Dyana Petro? 12 A Sure. Yes. 13 Q Okay. 14 A About five minutes ago. 15 Q Oh, okay. That was the first time? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Okay. 18 A They told me I was coming for a deposition. 19 I assumed it was for the same deposition I gave 20 previously. 21 Q Okay. Now, you gave a deposition previously 22 in another case involving Mr. Destefano? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Okay. And what was that case about? 25 A Him picketing and his -- things that he was 10 1 saying. You have a -- there was a police statement 2 that I wrote. 3 Q Okay. You've only given one deposition 4 relative to Mr. Destefano? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Okay. All right. Let me show you, if I can, 7 this is a -- this is out of the Sunbelt records. 8 MS. PETRO: Joe, could you just define those 9 a little better? 10 MR. GLICK: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. This is -- 11 MS. PETRO: Just because we have so many 12 Sunbelts running around out there. 13 BY MR. GLICK: 14 Q That's right. This is the -- this is the 15 records from Sunbelt Health & Subacute Center when Mrs. 16 Destefano was a patient there from September 19th, 1999 17 to September 21st, 1999. 18 A Okay. 19 Q All right. And this is Sunbelt Health Care & 20 Subacute Orlando. That's the place that you worked at; 21 right? 22 A Yes. 23 Q Okay. And I want to show you a document, if 24 I can find it, called an Additional Wound Care Progress 25 Note. 11 1 A Okay. 2 Q I'm going to show this to you. [Handing] 3 A Okay. 4 Q And let me ask you, first of all, is that 5 your handwriting on that note? 6 A Yes. It is. 7 Q Okay. And the signature on the bottom, 8 there's one signature that says Mary Thornton. 9 A Yeah. Mine's on the left. 10 Q And yours is on the left. 11 A Yes. 12 Q Okay. Did you, in fact, take care of Mrs. 13 Destefano at all while she was there? 14 A Well, according to this, I did a wound 15 assessment. 16 Q Okay. Do you remember anything else you did 17 other than a wound assessment on Mrs. Destefano? 18 A No. Actually I hadn't even remembered that I 19 had done this. 20 MR. GLICK: Okay. Okay. Do you have your 21 copies with you, by any chance? 22 MS. PETRO: My copies of what? 23 MR. GLICK: Of the Sunbelt records? 24 MS. PETRO: They're in the building. 25 MR. GLICK: They're in the building? 12 1 MS. PETRO: Yes. 2 MR. GLICK: Oh, okay. Let me have that back 3 because I have two copies there. I'm going to 4 take one out and hand it to you so that you can 5 read along with me. 6 THE WITNESS: All right. [Handing] 7 MS. PETRO: I can get -- I can make other 8 copies if you need to, if you want to attach it to 9 the deposition, Joe. 10 MR. GLICK: Yeah. Well, let's just make one 11 copy of this -- of this note. 12 MS. PETRO: Just the note? 13 MR. GLICK: Yeah. That's the only thing. 14 MS. PETRO: Okay. 15 [Whereupon, a recess was taken, after which 16 the following transpired:] 17 MR. GLICK: This is Exhibit 1 to the 18 deposition. 19 [Whereupon, the document referred to was 20 marked for identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 21 Number 1.] 22 MR. GLICK: [Handing] 23 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 24 BY MR. GLICK: 25 Q All right. Before we broke, Ms. -- how do 13 1 you pronounce your last name? 2 A Fuchs. 3 Q -- Ms. Fuchs, you said that you didn't -- you 4 didn't have a recollection of providing any treatment 5 or care or physical therapy to Mrs. Destefano; is that 6 accurate? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Okay. 9 A It's five years ago. 10 Q I understand that. I understand that. 11 Take a look at this additional wound care 12 progress note, if you will, and just go ahead and read 13 it to yourself for a minute or two and then I'll ask 14 you a few questions about it. 15 A [Examining] Okay. 16 Q Now, under what circumstances would you have 17 seen Carolina Destefano? 18 A For a wound. 19 Q Okay. 20 A Wound assessment. 21 Q All right. Now, a licensed physical 22 therapist assistant, they do wound care? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Okay. Explain that to me. Why would a 25 physical therapist do wound care? 14 1 A All right. First off, Sunbelt had a wound 2 care team -- 3 Q Um-hum. 4 A -- okay, which comprised almost every element 5 in the building; nutritional, nursing, rehab. We do a 6 lot of different things in rehab as far as wounds go. 7 One, I was -- I helped with the assessments, but also 8 had recommendations for the types of mattress they 9 might be on or splinting devices that they might be on 10 or -- well, anything, even the type of bandage 11 recommendation depending upon the type of wound it was 12 and all the other things that were involved with the 13 patient. 14 Q Okay. 15 A So that's just all encompassing. We also if 16 -- let's say a patient who has a Stage 3 or Stage 4 17 type wound, if they have eschar, which is the dead 18 tissue -- 19 Q Um-hum. 20 A -- then we might be doing some type of 21 debridement action -- 22 Q Okay. 23 A -- with the doctor's orders, of course. 24 Q Okay. Now, as a physical therapist 25 assistant, where would you normally chart in the 15 1 medical records other than an additional wound care 2 progress note? 3 A In reference to wounds? 4 Q In -- well, in reference to anything, 5 actually. 6 A Under the physical therapy section or -- and, 7 again, I'm not sure what my job title was at that 8 moment, if I was a restorative coordinator or if I was 9 working in physical therapy. 10 Q Okay. 11 A So I don't recall that long ago. More than 12 likely, I was restorative coordinator, so in that case, 13 it'd be under the restorative section and then I think 14 they had a section for wounds specific. 15 Q Okay. Let me -- before I go over this 16 additional wound care progress note -- well, let me go 17 over this first and then I'm going to show you the rest 18 of the records and you can tell me -- I think this may 19 be the only place your name appears, but -- 20 A Okay. 21 Q -- I'll let you look through it and -- okay. 22 You've read this note and does the -- the information 23 contained -- does most of the information contained 24 within this note come from the medical record? In 25 other words, did you get it from the medical record -- 16 1 A Um-hum. 2 Q -- rather than from your view of the patient? 3 A Well, you've got your -- in the beginning 4 part when I talk about the diagnose and the lab work, 5 that would obviously come from the chart -- 6 Q Right. 7 A -- under the lab area and they have a 8 diagnoses page. 9 Q Right. 10 A Typically the skin assessment, the nursing 11 admission skin assessment, okay, would be off of that. 12 Q Right. 13 A And then I would do a self-observation. 14 Q Okay. So it appears to me, and correct me if 15 I'm wrong, that up until it gets to the point: When 16 assessed, patient found to have bright red blood on 17 incontinence pad -- do you see that about -- 18 A Yes. I see that. 19 Q Okay. Up till that point, it appears that 20 the rest of that stuff, the part above that is what you 21 got from the medical records. 22 MS. PETRO: Form. 23 BY MR. GLICK: 24 Q Is that correct? 25 A No. That's not correct. 17 1 Q Okay. Tell me -- 2 A Okay. It says: Nursing admission skin 3 assessment 9/19 noted to have the following -- 4 Q Right. 5 A Right heel Stage 3 with yellow slough and 6 bloody drainage, two open wounds -- excuse me, two 7 open areas on coccyx sacrum with additional healed 8 sides with pink scar tissue. 9 At that point -- that point would probably be 10 the end of the records. 11 Q Okay. 12 A And then it looks like my assessment, I would 13 say also with Stage 2 intact blister on left shoulder, 14 that looks like it would be an assessment. And then 15 you would have to look at the graphic wound assessment 16 shown for everything else. 17 Q For dressing documentation [sic] -- 18 A For dressing documentation and the wound 19 status. We already described the wound itself. 20 Q Oh, okay. So you would have written that at 21 that time. 22 A Yes. 23 Q Okay. All right. So then there probably is 24 something else in the records that you wrote. 25 A Should be. 18 1 Q Okay. 2 MS. PETRO: Can you also clarify again -- 3 MR. GLICK: Sure. 4 MS. PETRO: -- that is recommendations, not 5 documentation; correct? 6 THE WITNESS: Yes. Recommendations. 7 MS. PETRO: Dressing recommendations. 8 BY MR. GLICK: 9 Q Okay. All right. Now, you write then: When 10 assessed, patient found to have bright red blood 11 on incontinence pad from unknown origin. 12 A Yes. 13 Q All right. Do you remember -- do you have a 14 recollection now of finding bright red blood on the 15 incontinence pad from an unknown origin? 16 A Do I have a recollection? I don't even 17 remember the patient. 18 Q Okay. 19 A So the answer would have to be, no. I don't 20 even remember. 21 Q Okay. All right. Then it says -- 22 A Too long ago. 23 Q Then it says: Nursing notified and aware of 24 blood. 25 You don't remember that either, I would 19 1 assume? 2 A No. But if I wrote it, it happened. 3 Q Okay. M.D. to examine patient. Patient to 4 be transferred to ORMC for evaluation. 5 This is something you just -- you wrote it. 6 You see it here, but it's not something you recall. 7 A No. 8 Q All right. And when you say no, you're 9 agreeing with me that that is not something you'd 10 recall; correct? 11 A I am agreeing with you that I do not recall. 12 Q Okay. Now, you signed the bottom of this and 13 then Mary Thornton also signed it next to you. 14 A Yes. 15 Q Is that -- why would she have also signed 16 that, if you know? 17 A Typically when I do a wound assessment, I 18 have a nurse with me, so she would have been the nurse. 19 Q Okay. So she would have been with you when 20 this occurred? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Let's 23 take a look at the Sunbelt -- all of the records now. 24 Let me put these back before we get them mixed up. 25 [Examining] 20 1 All right. This is another copy. This was 2 the records custodian's deposition, so you don't have 3 to look at all this stuff. But if you could look at 4 the tab under Exhibit 1 and up to Exhibit 2 and if you 5 could -- you don't have to read obviously every word 6 there, but if you can show me where your handwriting 7 appears. [Handing] Other than the additional wound 8 care progress note. 9 A [Examining] This is my writing. 10 Q Okay. Were you starting from the back or the 11 front? 12 A I started from the front. 13 Q Okay. Let me get to that then. [Examining] 14 Okay. What we're looking at now is -- 15 A Graphic of the wound assessment. 16 Q Graphic of the wound. On the bottom of the 17 page, it doesn't have a name there; right, on the top? 18 A No. It does not. 19 Q And patient number it doesn't have, but it 20 says: 9/21/99, Room Number 307, wound location, 21 sacrum. 22 A Yes. 23 Q All right. And then you did -- can we mark 24 this as Exhibit Number 2? Let me do this. 25 A You want her to mark my page? 21 1 Q Yeah. We can just go ahead and do that. 2 MS. PETRO: Do you want to flag it and then 3 I'll make a copy and we can mark -- 4 MR. GLICK: Yeah. That's fine. 5 MS. PETRO: Why don't you do that? Why don't 6 you stick a tape flag on it and then I'll go make 7 a copy and we'll -- 8 MR. GLICK: Okay. All right. 9 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 10 BY MR. GLICK: 11 Q What does the word epitheliazation mean? 12 A Epitheliazation is when you have tissue 13 that's coming out that's good tissue. 14 Q Okay. This is -- what's funny? 15 MS. PETRO: I just -- I'm very squeamish, so 16 I was making a face at Larry and I will just -- 17 I'm sorry. 18 MR. GLICK: Okay. That's okay. Not at all. 19 BY MR. GLICK: 20 Q What you're drawing here is the sacrum, 21 though. 22 A I'm drawing the wounds on the sacrum. 23 Q Wounds on the sacrum; okay. An opened 24 reddened area. 25 If the sacrum was bleeding at that time, 22 1 would you have noted it on this? 2 A On this form? No. 3 Q Yeah. What? 4 A On this form? No. 5 Q Would you have -- 6 A This is a graphic representation of what's 7 going on with the wound. 8 Q Okay. Would you have noted it on the 9 additional wound care progress note? 10 A Yes. This next page where it says: Wound 11 assessment -- 12 Q Yeah. 13 A -- is also where I probably would have noted 14 it. 15 Q Okay. But you would have noted it on the 16 additional wound care progress notes. 17 A I probably would have noted it on this 18 additional wound care progress note; yes. 19 Q Okay. All right. 20 A Didn't remember the name. 21 Q Okay. Let's look at the next page, which 22 we'll mark as Exhibit 3, which says, Wound Assessment, 23 at the top. 24 A Do you want me to take another one of these 25 or -- 23 1 Q Okay. And this says: Wound Assessment, and 2 it says: Carolina Destefano. 3 Is this all your handwriting on this page? 4 A Up to the signature on the bottom. 5 Q Okay. 6 A Mary Thornton or Mary whatever her name is. 7 Q Okay. Okay. And this is the etiology of 8 wound pressure, ulcer -- it says pressure -- 9 A Yes. 10 Q -- location right heel. 11 A Yes. 12 Q And then you describe the length and the 13 width, full thickness. Okay. Edges are uniform. No 14 undermining or tunneling. What does that mean? 15 A If you have a wound -- 16 Q Um-hum. 17 A If you have a wound -- let's say this cap 18 [indicating] is the wound. Okay. You have a round 19 circle; okay? If you go underneath where -- in a 20 space -- 21 Q Um-hum. 22 A -- that's undermining. 23 Q Okay. All right. Necrotic tissues, it's 24 sloughing at 100 percent necrotic? Is that what that 25 means? 24 1 A A hundred percent slough. 2 Q Okay. No eschar. It's adherent, no 3 granulation and then we talked about the other word I 4 can't read. 5 A Epitheliazation -- 6 Q Yeah. 7 A -- 15 percent. 8 Q What does 15 percent previous site mean? 9 A That it looks like it's probably opened up 10 before. 11 Q Okay. And the next thing is drainage and it 12 says: Moderate -- 13 A Sanguineous. 14 Q -- serous, sanguineous -- 15 A Serous and sanguineous. 16 Q What does that mean? 17 A It could have -- the serous sanguineous is 18 the -- you can have some blood in it as well -- 19 Q Um-hum. 20 A -- and typical wounds, okay, will have some 21 type of debris coming out of them, some type of liquid 22 coming out of them, even a simple scrape -- 23 Q Um-hum. 24 A -- okay, that -- the sanguineous part is more 25 where the blood's coming into it. The serous part is 25 1 the other stuff, what's like a clearer liquid coming 2 out. 3 Q Um-hum. Okay. Does sanguineous mean blood? 4 A I don't remember off the top of my head. I 5 haven't done wounds for several years now -- 6 Q Okay. 7 A -- so I'm kind of out of the habit. 8 Q So a serous sanguineous could have some blood 9 in it or it does have blood in it? 10 MR. TOWNSEND: Form. 11 MS. PETRO: Join. 12 THE WITNESS: My memory would say that it has 13 some blood in it. 14 MR. GLICK: All right. 15 THE WITNESS: Usually a light tint. 16 BY MR. GLICK: 17 Q Okay. All right. Again, as we're going 18 through this, is it -- is your -- are you recalling 19 this wound assessment at all? 20 A No. 21 Q Okay. Then it says: Odor -- 22 A None. 23 Q No. No odor. It says: None -- no foul 24 odor. No fecal odor. No other odor; correct? 25 A Yes. 26 1 Q All right. And then what's the -- I have a 2 hole punched through mine. What was the next category? 3 Maybe edema? I can't tell. 4 A [Examining] It might be edema. I can't tell 5 either. 6 Q Okay. 7 A By reading it, I would probably say edema. 8 Q Okay. And then the next one is induration, 9 none. 10 A No, it says. 11 Q Temperature, normal. Or -- yeah, 12 induration -- 13 A Yes. 14 Q -- none. Temperature is normal. 15 A Periwound. 16 Q Periwound skin is intact. 17 A Yes. 18 Q Erythema is reddened. 19 A Yes. 20 Q Sensation -- 21 A Intact. 22 Q -- intact. Pain -- 23 A At site. 24 Q And what does that say under the next line 25 where it says pain frequency? What did you write 27 1 there? 2 A On dressing change, she has pain with 3 dressing change. 4 Q Okay. And she has a positive pedal pulse. 5 Infection, no s/s. What does that mean? 6 A No signs or symptoms. 7 Q Okay. And can you read for me your dressing 8 treatment recommendations? 9 A Cleansed -- Number 1, cleansed with normal 10 saline. Apply Accuzyme to necrotic tissue. Dress 11 with four-inch-by-four-inch gauze and wrap with 12 Kerlix. Change -- qd means every day -- and prn, 13 which is as needed. 14 Q Okay. All right. Now, I believe you stated 15 earlier that if any of the wounds had been bleeding, 16 you would have noted it on the additional wound care 17 progress note -- 18 A Um-hum. 19 Q -- and on this wound assessment. 20 A Yes. 21 Q Now, by your notation that there was the 22 sanguineous moderate -- 23 A Um-hum. 24 Q -- is that what you consider to be bleeding 25 from the wounds? Or is that -- 28 1 A No. That's a -- that's a -- it's not like 2 your thick, red blood that you would normally see from 3 a cut. 4 Q Okay. 5 A Okay? It's a -- more of a light tinted -- 6 Q Okay. 7 A -- in the blood. 8 Q So that would not be the bright red blood on 9 the incontinence pad. 10 A Well, we're talking about a heel. 11 Q Right. Oh, you're talking about a heel here; 12 right? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Okay. So this serous sanguineous is not the 15 same thing as what you're noting -- 16 A No. It's not. 17 Q -- as bright red blood on the additional 18 wound care progress note. 19 A No. It's not. 20 Q Okay. Thank you. 21 A Now, the next page is also my writing. 22 [Whereupon, Mr. Glick and Mr. Destefano 23 confer.] 24 BY MR. GLICK: 25 Q Okay. All right. Why does Mary Thornton 29 1 sign this wound assessment also? 2 A Okay. All my -- all my wound assessments are 3 co-signed by a nurse. 4 Q Okay. And would Mary Thornton have been 5 there during the wound assessment? 6 A I already stated she was. 7 Q Okay. 8 A She should have been. 9 Q Okay. Now, let me see, you said she was or 10 she should have been. 11 A Well, I -- you're talking five years ago. 12 Everytime I did an assessment, a nurse was with me, 13 so -- 14 Q Okay. 15 A -- she signed it. I'm assuming she was there 16 with me. 17 Q Okay. In other words, you can't picture it 18 in your mind, but that's the way it was always done. 19 A I can't even picture Mary Thornton. 20 Q Okay. 21 A So -- 22 Q All right. Next page is -- 23 A The right heel. 24 Q That's you also; right? 25 A Yes. It is. 30 1 MR. GLICK: Okay. So we'll mark that as 2 Exhibit 4. 3 [Whereupon, the document referred to was 4 marked for identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 5 Number 4.] 6 MR. GLICK: All right. And on the right heel 7 you have the drawing there. This is the graphic 8 sheet and all of those things I understand, so 9 we'll skip over Exhibit 4 and we'll go to Exhibit 10 5, which is going to be the next wound assessment. 11 [Whereupon, the document referred to was 12 marked for identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 13 Number 5.] 14 BY MR. GLICK: 15 Q All right. And this is a pressure wound. 16 This is the sacrum you're evaluating here; correct? Or 17 assessing; right? 18 A Yeah. 19 Q Okay. Length, you describe the length and 20 the width of it. You describe the depth and the stage 21 as partial thickness. And correct me if I'm wrong with 22 any of this. 23 You describe the edges as uneven and zero 24 percent on all the necrotic tissues except for 25 epithelialization, you say -- what does that say there, 31 1 300 percent? 2 A Um-hum. 3 Q Yes? 4 A Yes. 5 Q As compared to wound? 6 A I can't read it. 7 Q Okay. 8 A As something to wound, yes. 9 Q All right. Then -- 10 A My eyesight's bad. 11 Q All right. Then the drainage, you have down 12 scant serous, which is the clear liquid. 13 A Yes. 14 Q And no odor; correct? 15 A Correct. 16 Q And the edema, which we think says edema, is 17 none. And induration, none. And temperature, normal. 18 All of that's correct; right? 19 A Correct. 20 Q And a peri -- does that say -- 21 A Periwound. 22 Q -- periwound skin's intact. Erythema is 23 reddened. The sensation's intact. Then we have -- you 24 write -- you note that she had pain at the site. 25 A Yes. 32 1 Q All right. Do you remember -- 2 A No. I do not recall. 3 Q The question's going to be -- the question 4 is: Do you recall how you determined she had pain at 5 the site? 6 A Probably verbalization, but I -- without 7 being there, I can't give you an accurate answer -- 8 Q Okay. 9 A -- on that. It could have been if I was 10 taking a dressing off and she said something or she -- 11 facial expression -- I can't tell you without and I 12 don't remember. 13 Q Okay. Then pain frequency you wrote: 14 Dressing change. 15 Pain on dressing change? Is that what that 16 means? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Okay. Pulse positive. Infection, no signs 19 or symptoms. 20 All right. You're telling me that today? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Okay. And can you read for me your 23 dressings/treatment recommendations? 24 A Yes. Cleansed with normal saline. Apply 25 skin prep periwound. Dress with Signa Dress 33 1 duoderm, change every five days or as needed. 2 Q All right. And, again, here there's no sign 3 of any bleeding wound. 4 A No. 5 Q All right. And, again, it's signed by you 6 and Mary Thornton. 7 A Yes. It is. 8 Q And you would assume that Mary Thornton was 9 with you in the room when you did this wound assessment 10 also. 11 A Yes. 12 Q Okay. These -- the additional wound care 13 progress note -- 14 A Um-hum. 15 Q -- the two drawings that you did, those two 16 pages and then the two wound assessments, would you 17 presume that they were all done at the same time? 18 A Absolutely. 19 Q Okay. 20 A They all should be dated. 21 Q Well, they're all dated 9/21/99. 22 A Okay. 23 Q But I'm wondering if they were all done at 24 the same time. In other words -- 25 A Typically when I do a wound, I immediately go 34 1 and do the whole form and everything. At least that 2 day it will be done. 3 Q Okay. But you have here the sacrum and then 4 you have the heel. You would do them both -- I mean, 5 you would do the sacrum. Then immediately thereafter 6 do the heel or -- 7 A Oh, right. I'd be doing a complete 8 assessment of the patient -- 9 Q Right. 10 A -- for the wounds at one time. It wouldn't 11 be, like, coming back or anything; no. 12 Q Okay. Let's continue on. And are you able 13 to tell from these records or do you have a 14 recollection of what time of day this was done? 15 A No. 16 Q Okay. All right. Let's keep going on and 17 let's thumb through the rest of the records and tell me 18 if you see your handwriting anywhere else. 19 A On the additional wound care progress note, 20 which you've already take a copy of -- 21 Q Right. 22 A -- which is Exhibit 1. [Examining] Under 23 Exhibit 1, that was it. 24 Q Okay. So it appears that you only saw Mrs. 25 Destefano on this one occasion; is that correct? 35 1 A Yes. 2 Q [Examining] Do you recall at this point in 3 time when you were there, there being any controversy 4 as far as Mrs. Destefano was concerned? I'm talking 5 about on 9/21/99. 6 A I don't recall. 7 Q All right. Did there come a time when you 8 heard there was any type of a controversy at all 9 involving Larry Destefano or his mother? 10 A There was, but I don't remember when that 11 happened. I imagine when -- the time that I wrote the 12 police statement against him, I probably heard 13 something then but I don't even remember what it was 14 about now. 15 Q Okay. Tell -- you wrote a police statement 16 against him. What did that have to do with? 17 A Him picketing and his foul language outside 18 the residence in a threatening manner, the way he came 19 across to the residents. 20 Q Okay. All right. This [indicating] is a -- 21 let's see, okay, charging affidavit that's dated 22 November 23rd, 1999, which is just a few days after the 23 notes that we talked about. 24 MS. PETRO: Objection. It's two months after 25 the notes we talked about. 36 1 BY MR. GLICK: 2 Q I'm sorry. You're absolutely right. It was 3 a mistake on my part. 4 Two months later, November 23rd, 1999. Is 5 this -- is this your handwriting on this? [Handing] 6 A Do you want it as an exhibit? 7 Q Only if it's your handwriting on it. 8 A [Examining] I don't think it is. 9 Q Let me see that. Maybe this is the wrong 10 document. 11 A [Handing] 12 Q [Examining] This is the charging affidavit. 13 This is -- let's go off the record a second. 14 [Whereupon, a discussion was had off the 15 record, after which the following transpired:] 16 BY MR. GLICK: 17 Q Did you fill out a sworn statement? 18 A Yes. I did. 19 Q Okay. And that -- absolutely, you said? 20 A Yes. I did. 21 Q Okay. And then you also gave the 22 deposition -- 23 A Yes. I did. 24 Q -- where you described what you saw. 25 A Yes. I did. 37 1 Q Okay. All right. Tell me at this time -- I 2 know it's been almost five years now since that -- 3 since that incident with Mr. Destefano picketing -- 4 what is your recollection of what happened that day 5 with Mr. Destefano picketing? 6 A Which day? The day picketing? 7 Q Well, the day -- was there any day that you 8 found Mr. Destefano to either -- other than -- other 9 than just picketing, was there any day other than one 10 day that you found Mr. Destefano to be using foul 11 language or you heard him to be threatening or to be -- 12 MS. PETRO: Form. Compound question. You 13 can answer the question if you can, but if you 14 want him to break down -- 15 MR. GLICK: Yeah. 16 MS. PETRO: -- what he's asking you about. 17 THE WITNESS: I believe what you're asking me 18 is this: You're asking me did I see him other 19 than the day that I wrote my witness statement. 20 MR. GLICK: Yeah. 21 THE WITNESS: The answer's, no. 22 BY MR. GLICK: 23 Q Okay. You only saw him that one day. 24 A Well, no. I saw him picketing. He was 25 usually right outside my window almost every day. 38 1 Q Okay. But that's the only day you saw him 2 causing trouble? 3 A Correct. 4 Q Okay. Got you. Now, tell me the best you -- 5 as best as you can recall what you remember happening 6 that day. 7 A I'd have to refer back to my previous 8 deposition and my -- the witness statement that I 9 wrote. 10 Q Okay. Sitting here today you don't have an 11 independent recollection of it? 12 A Not off the top of my head, no. 13 Q Okay. All right. And I looked -- I was able 14 to look briefly through your prior deposition and you 15 made -- you made a statement in there that Mr. 16 Destefano's friend, a woman, I think her name was Kay 17 McNeil, was there that day and she -- you said that she 18 was cursing. Do you remember that at all? 19 A Vaguely. 20 Q All right. Do you remember her pushing a 21 nurse down to the floor? 22 MS. PETRO: Form. 23 THE WITNESS: No. 24 BY MR. GLICK: 25 Q Okay. When you saw Mr. Destefano picketing, 39 1 would you see him on your way to work? I mean, was it 2 as you were walking into the center or as you were 3 leaving the facility? 4 A I don't recall. 5 Q Okay. Did there come a time when you had any 6 discussions with Rachel Bean regarding Larry 7 Destefano's picketing or his behavior? 8 A Other than that night that I wrote the 9 statement? 10 Q Yes. 11 A No. Not that I recall. 12 Q All right. Do you remember ever having a 13 conversation with Rachel Bean regarding Mrs. Destefano? 14 A Not that I recall. 15 Q Do you remember having a conversation with 16 Mary Thornton regarding Mr. Destefano or Mrs. 17 Destefano? 18 A Not that I recall. 19 Q Okay. You don't even remember who Mary 20 Thornton was? I mean, can you -- 21 A I think she was the nurse manager, but I 22 can't recall. 23 Q You can't recall what she looks like? 24 A No. 25 Q Okay. How about, do you remember Carol Boze? 40 1 A Yes. 2 Q Okay. Do you remember having a conversation 3 at all with her about Larry Destefano or his mother? 4 A No. 5 Q Okay. As far as the bright red blood on the 6 incontinence pad that you noted in Exhibit Number 1, 7 you've told me, as I understand it, you don't remember 8 that bright red blood at this point in time. 9 A No. 10 Q Okay. If I showed you -- well, let me show 11 you a bed pad that we believe -- okay. Let me ask you 12 this question first. 13 What does bright red blood mean to you? 14 A What it means to me is fresh blood. 15 Q Okay. It doesn't necessarily mean coming 16 from a certain part of the body? 17 A No. 18 Q Okay. All right. Let me show you a -- 19 [pause]. Okay. Let me ask you, first of all, if this 20 typically is the -- if this was typical of the bed pads 21 that were used at Sunbelt? 22 A I don't recall. 23 Q Okay. The back of it, I'll show you the 24 front and the back [indicating] and is your answer 25 still, you don't recall? 41 1 A No. It could have been. I've seen -- I've 2 been in the career field for several years and I've 3 seen multiple types of bed pads, so whether that was 4 used at Sunbelt specifically, I don't recall. 5 Q Okay. 6 A But that is typically a bed pad. 7 Q Okay. This is a typical nursing home bed 8 pad? 9 A It's a little bit larger than normal but, 10 yes. 11 Q Okay. As far as the -- do you see a -- what 12 appears to be a bloodstain that -- actually, I'll just 13 point to it -- this one right here [indicating]. Do 14 you see that? 15 A I see that. 16 Q Okay. After looking at that stain and this 17 bed pad, does this refresh your recollection at all as 18 to the statement that you made in Exhibit 1 of your 19 deposition: Patient found to have bright red blood on 20 incontinence pad? 21 A Does it remind me? No. 22 Q Does it -- yeah. Okay. 23 Is any -- to your recollection, is blood 24 drawn at Sunbelt -- was blood drawn at Sunbelt when you 25 were there? 42 1 A I'm sure the lab would come in and draw blood 2 periodically, but -- 3 Q Okay. Would you draw blood at all? 4 A Absolutely not. 5 Q Okay. How about, did any of the nurses there 6 draw blood? 7 A Not to my recollection, but I don't know. 8 Q Would there be patients that were being 9 intravenously fed at Sunbelt -- 10 A Yes. 11 Q -- when you were there? 12 Did you ever witness Rachel Bean drawing 13 blood? 14 A No. 15 Q Did you ever witness Rachel Bean taking blood 16 of Carolina Destefano and placing it on a bed pad? 17 A No. 18 Q Did you ever place blood of Carolina 19 Destefano on a bed pad? 20 A No. 21 Q All right. Did you ever witness anyone do 22 that? 23 A No. 24 Q [Pause] Do you ever remember writing 25 something like this before, the: When assessed, 43 1 patient found to have bright red blood on incontinence 2 pad from unknown origin? 3 A Did I ever write that before with another 4 patient? 5 Q Yeah. 6 A If I had observed it, I would have written 7 it. 8 Q Okay. But do you remember there ever being a 9 situation other than this one where you saw blood on a 10 bed pad, but you just couldn't tell where it was coming 11 from? 12 A Typically that would be more -- closer to the 13 -- usually it would be at the foot level, not at the 14 bed pad level. 15 Q Oh, the bed pad is placed underneath -- 16 A The tush, the bottom. 17 Q The buttocks area? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Okay. That's where -- the buttocks is 20 usually centered on the center of the bed pad. 21 MR. TOWNSEND: Form. 22 MS. PETRO: Form. You can answer. 23 THE WITNESS: Hmm? 24 MS. PETRO: You can answer. We -- don't -- 25 you can answer his question. 44 1 BY MR. GLICK: 2 Q Is the -- when you're taking care of a 3 patient, is the bed pad usually placed so that the 4 center of the bed pad is under the buttocks -- 5 A Yes. 6 Q -- area of the person? 7 A Typically I would say, yes. 8 Q Okay. All right. So in the past and on 9 other occasions when you've seen blood, it's usually 10 been down at the feet area; is that what you're saying? 11 A Well, I can't say. It's really patient- 12 specific. If the patient has an open wound and is 13 bleeding on the -- yeah, I'm going to note that. 14 Q Okay. But as far as -- well, that's a dumb 15 question. 16 Back at that time in 1999 September, if you 17 had seen bright red blood that you couldn't tell where 18 it was coming from or you did know where it was coming 19 from, what was your responsibility to do at that point 20 in time? 21 A I would notify nursing. 22 Q Okay. And just whoever was kind of in charge 23 at that time you would notify? I mean, would you tell 24 a CNA or would you tell -- 25 A No. 45 1 Q No. 2 A You'd tell either an LPN or the nurse 3 manager. 4 Q Okay. Do you -- or the director of nursing? 5 A As a last effort, yeah. Typically you would 6 go to the floor nurse and the -- the patient's nurse 7 first. And if you couldn't find her, then you would go 8 to the nurse manager. 9 Q All right. When you left Sunbelt, were you 10 terminated or did you voluntarily resign? 11 A I voluntarily. 12 Q Do you recall there being allegations that 13 nurses at Sunbelt in, I think, late '99, early 2000 14 were accused of taking -- stealing medication or drugs? 15 MS. PETRO: Objection; irrelevant. There's 16 been an ongoing objection through this entire 17 proceeding regarding this -- questions regarding 18 this incident. It is completely irrelevant. If 19 it happened at all, it happened after this 20 incident and I'm not going to direct the witness 21 not to answer, but I'd like to maintain the 22 ongoing objection as to any questioning regarding 23 that alleged incident. 24 MR. GLICK: Okay. I'm probably only going to 25 ask a few questions and you can have a standing 46 1 objection to that. 2 MS. PETRO: Thank you. 3 BY MR. GLICK: 4 Q Do you recall that, those allegations at all? 5 A No. 6 Q Okay. 7 MR. TOWNSEND: That cuts down the questions. 8 MS. PETRO: Huh? 9 MR. GLICK: Yeah. 10 MS. PETRO: Cuts down a number of questions. 11 MR. GLICK: Ruined my whole next line of 12 questioning. 13 MS. PETRO: But I get to make such a nice, 14 long-winded objection. 15 MR. GLICK: All right. I may be close to 16 being done. Let me step outside with my client. 17 MS. PETRO: Let's go ahead and take a break. 18 MR. GLICK: Yeah. 19 [Whereupon, a recess was taken, after which 20 the following transpired:] 21 BY MR. GLICK: 22 Q When you worked at Sunbelt, did you have a 23 certain shift when you were there, like nurses are 7:00 24 to 3:00 or 11:00 to 7:00 or -- 25 A I typically worked days and depending upon 47 1 what I needed to get done that day was when I worked. 2 But typically it'd be anywhere from 8:00 to 5:00, 3 somewhere in there. 4 Q Okay. 5 A 7:00 to 5:00. It just depends, but mainly 6 days Monday through Friday. 7 Q All right. So if I asked you on 9/21/99 what 8 hours you worked, you would tell me that you don't know 9 exactly, but probably 7:00 to 5:00, 8:00 to 5:00, 10 somewhere in there. 11 MS. PETRO: Form. 12 BY MR. GLICK: 13 Q Is that right? 14 A That would be probably appropriate; yes. 15 Q Okay. Now, did there come a -- was there a 16 -- normally would you do your wound assessments at the 17 beginning of your shift, in the middle of your shift or 18 at the end of your shift? 19 A No set time. 20 Q Do you remember a Deborah Jarrell? 21 A No. 22 Q Do you remember a nurse or a -- somebody who 23 worked at Sunbelt with the last name, Gregg? 24 A No. 25 Q Either S. Gregg or -- let me just show you 48 1 just her handwriting real quick. [Examining] 2 What was your relationship with Rachel Bean 3 when you were there? 4 A She was the director of nursing. I think she 5 was my supervisor. 6 Q Okay. Did you have a social relationship 7 with her at all? 8 A No. 9 Q Okay. How about Mary Thornton? 10 A No. 11 Q What was your relationship with her? 12 A She was the nurse manager, if I remember 13 right. 14 Q Okay. But you had no social relationship 15 with her. 16 A No. 17 Q How about Carol Boze? 18 A No. 19 Q Were you a friend of hers at all outside the 20 facility? 21 A No. 22 Q Now, handwriting, it looks like S. Gregg. 23 Does that -- do you recognize that at all? [Handing] 24 A No. I don't. 25 Q When was the last time you talked to Rachel 49 1 Bean, if you recall? 2 A It had to have been when I was working there. 3 Q Same with Mary Thornton and Carol Boze? 4 A Yes. I did see Mary at -- no. I saw Carol 5 Boze out at a movie one time but I didn't talk to her, 6 so -- 7 Q Okay. Say hello? 8 A No. 9 Q Okay. All right. 10 [Whereupon, Mr. Glick and Mr. Destefano 11 confer.] 12 BY MR. GLICK: 13 Q Okay. I'm sure this is going to be met with 14 an objection, but a lot of the -- to a lot of the 15 questions you've answered: I don't know. Would you 16 agree with me to that? 17 A Yes. 18 MS. PETRO: Objection. 19 BY MR. GLICK: 20 Q Okay. Do you think your recollection of 21 these -- of any events that happened in September of 22 '99 would have been better, say, six months after the 23 events? 24 A Sure. 25 MS. PETRO: Objection; speculation. 50 1 BY MR. GLICK: 2 Q Okay. Or eight months after the events -- 3 MS. PETRO: Objection; speculation. 4 BY MR. GLICK: 5 Q -- would your recollection have been better 6 than it is today here? 7 A I'm sure it would have been. It would have 8 been fresher in my mind. 9 Q Okay. I have one more question for you. 10 [Pause] Just a few last questions just to -- just so 11 I'm clear. 12 You have no recollection of Carolina 13 Destefano? 14 A No. 15 Q You have no recollection as we sit here today 16 of bright red blood on her incontinence pad? 17 A Just what I wrote. 18 Q But you don't have a recollection of that. 19 A No. I do not. 20 Q After seeing the bed pad, that does not 21 refresh your memory? 22 A No. It doesn't. 23 Q And after seeing your -- the pages that we've 24 marked as exhibits, that doesn't refresh your memory 25 either. 51 1 A No. It doesn't. 2 Q Okay. Is it possible that you actually never 3 saw Carolina Destefano and that somebody told you to 4 write this note, this additional wound care progress 5 note and these other notes? 6 MS. PETRO: Objection; form. 7 THE WITNESS: No. It's not possible. I 8 don't write anything that would be false. If I 9 wrote it, that happened. 10 MR. GLICK: Okay. That's all I have. Thank 11 you. 12 MS. PETRO: Do you have any questions? 13 MR. TOWNSEND: Yeah. I've got a couple. 14 MS. PETRO: This is Larry Townsend. He 15 represents ORMC. 16 CROSS EXAMINATION 17 BY MR. TOWNSEND: 18 Q Orlando Regional. Do you recall ever having 19 any contact with anyone at Orlando Regional Healthcare 20 System in connection with Mrs. Destefano's -- 21 A No. 22 Q -- transfer on the 21st? 23 A No. 24 Q To your knowledge, other than the written 25 statement that you gave to the police that was 52 1 discussed earlier in connection with the incident and 2 the picketing and your deposition, have you ever given 3 a written statement to anyone about the events of 4 this -- 5 A No. 6 Q -- the events that we're talking about here? 7 A No. 8 Q Have you ever given anyone permission to tape 9 record any conversations with you concerning the events 10 that are at issue here? 11 A No. 12 Q Are you aware that -- whether anyone ever 13 tape recorded any discussions with you about this 14 incident? 15 A No. 16 Q If they had and it had been transcribed, 17 would you like to see a copy of it? 18 A Yes. I would. 19 MR. TOWNSEND: All right. I would request 20 that if you all, based upon her desire to see a 21 copy of any transcripts of any conversations with 22 her, if you all have such copies, that you produce 23 them to her pursuant to her request. 24 MR. GLICK: The only thing that we have is 25 her deposition. 53 1 MR. TOWNSEND: All right. I mean, I don't 2 know that. I'm just asking. 3 MR. GLICK: Yeah. No. We have her 4 deposition from the criminal case that Dyana has, 5 too. 6 MS. PETRO: Um-hum. 7 BY MR. TOWNSEND: 8 Q Has anyone approached you about this -- any 9 aspects of this case since you gave the deposition in 10 the criminal action? 11 A Yes. 12 Q Tell me who and when. 13 A Her [indicating]. 14 Q Okay. And when -- 15 A This office. They called me to say I need to 16 come in for a deposition. 17 Q All right. 18 A He [indicating] came to my house one day. 19 Q And when you -- he, you're pointing to Mr. 20 David Gill, the gentleman right over here [indicating]? 21 A Yes. 22 Q All right. When did he come to your house? 23 A I don't remember when it is. 24 Q Approximately how long ago? 1994? 25 A A couple months ago. 54 1 Q All right. And did you have any conversation 2 with Mr. Gill at that time? 3 A I ended it once I found out who he was 4 representing. 5 Q Did he -- was he forthcoming, upfront with 6 you about why he was there and who he was representing? 7 A When I asked, yes. 8 Q What did he initially tell you when he came 9 to your -- did he come to your house? 10 A He came to my house. 11 Q And what did he initially tell you why he was 12 there? 13 A I don't recall completely. It had something 14 to do -- he said that he was a -- asked me about Mrs. 15 Destefano. Or actually, he asked me about him 16 [indicating], not the -- not the -- 17 Q You're pointing at Mr. Destefano. 18 A Yes. 19 Q Okay. 20 A He asked me about him, not his mother, I 21 assume. 22 Q All right. And did you ask him why he was 23 asking those questions? 24 A Yeah. I think at that point I asked him who 25 he was representing. 55 1 Q And what did he tell you? 2 A He told me that he was representing him 3 [indicating]. 4 Q All right. And then did he -- did you give 5 Mr. Gill a statement or answer any of his questions? 6 A I told him our conversation was over at this 7 point, for him to get off my property. 8 Q All right. And did he do so? 9 A Yes. He did. 10 MR. TOWNSEND: Okay. Thanks. 11 CROSS EXAMINATION 12 BY MS. PETRO: 13 Q Did you ever feel threatened or afraid while 14 Mr. Gill was on your property? 15 A No. 16 MS. PETRO: I don't have any other questions. 17 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 18 THE REPORTER: Read or waive? 19 MS. PETRO: Read. 20 MR. GLICK: You have the right to read this 21 -- are you representing her? 22 MS. PETRO: Yes, sir. 23 MR. GLICK: Okay. 24 MS. PETRO: And she knows that this time. 25 THE REPORTER: May I have a daytime phone 56 1 number that my office can reach you, the court 2 reporter's office? 3 THE WITNESS: Okay. It's unlisted. 4 THE REPORTER: Thank you. 5 [Whereupon, the reading and signing of the 6 deposition was reserved.] 7 [Whereupon, the foregoing deposition was 8 concluded at 5:22 p.m.] 9 [Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit Numbers 2 and 10 3 were marked for identification at the conclusion 11 of the deposition.] 12 - - - - - 57 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 STATE OF FLORIDA: 3 COUNTY OF SEMINOLE: 4 I, Dawn R. Matter, Electronic Reporter and 5 Notary Public, State of Florida at Large, do hereby 6 certify that I reported the deposition of SHELLY FUCHS, 7 and that the said witness was first duly sworn by me. 8 I further certify that the foregoing pages 9 numbered 3 through 56, inclusive, prepared under my 10 direction and supervision, constitute a true, complete 11 and accurate transcript of said witness to the best of 12 my skill and ability. 13 I further certify that I am not of counsel 14 for, nor related to any party herein or attorney 15 involved herein, nor am I financially interested in the 16 outcome of this action. 17 WITNESS MY HAND AND OFFICIAL SEAL this 1st 18 day of October 2004. 19 __________________________________ 20 DAWN R. MATTER, 21 Electronic Reporter and Notary 22 Public, State of Florida at Large 58 1 SUBSCRIPTION OF DEPONENT 2 I, SHELLY FUCHS, have read the foregoing 3 deposition given by me on August 27, 2004, in 4 Orlando, Florida, and the following corrections, 5 if any, should be made in the transcript: 6 PAGE LINE CORRECTION AND REASON 7 [The witness will read Ms. Petro's copy of 8 the transcript.] 9 Subject to the above corrections, if any, my 10 testimony reads as given by me in the foregoing 11 deposition. 12 SIGNED this day of October 2004. 13 14 SHELLY FUCHS 15 Destefano v Adventist 59 1 Case No. CIO-00-7265(32)