1993 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE NINTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND 2 FOR ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA 3 LAWRENCE M. DESTEFANO, 4 Plaintiff, 5 vs. CASE NO.: CI-00-7265 DIVISION: 32 6 ADVENTIST HEALTH SYSTEM SUNBELT HEALTHCARE 7 CORPORATION; ADVENTIST HEALTH SYSTEM/SUNBELT, INC.; SUNBELT 8 HEALTH CARE CENTERS, INC.; ROLLINS BEDFORD CORPORATION, 9 d/b/a SUNBELT HEALTHCARE & SUBACUTE CENTER; SHCC 10 SERVICES, INC., and ORLANDO REGIONAL HEALTHCARE SYSTEM, 11 INC., 12 Defendants. 13 ------------------------------------------------------ 14 VOLUME XV 15 (Pages 1993 through 2176) 16 Continued transcript of proceedings held before the 17 Honorable Renee Roche, Judge of the Circuit Court, Orange 18 County, Florida, on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 and 19 continuing to Wednesday, October 26, 2005, beginning at 20 8:51 a.m., at the Orange County Courthouse, Orlando, 21 Florida, before Laura J. Landerman, R.M.R., C.R.R., and 22 Notary Public, State of Florida at Large. 23 24 25 1994 1 A P P E A R A N C E S: 2 WILLIAM G. OSBORNE, ESQUIRE TERRY McCULLOUGH, Legal Assistant 3 Law Offices of William G. Osborne, P.A. 538 East Washington Street 4 Orlando, Florida 32801 and 5 BRADLEY CONWAY, ESQUIRE 390 North Orange Avenue 6 Orlando, Florida 32801 7 For the Plaintiffs, 8 TRACY A. MARSHALL, ESQUIRE DYANA L. PETRO, ESQUIRE 9 Gray Robinson 301 East Pine Street -- Suite 1400 10 Orlando, Florida 32801 11 For the Defendant, Adventist Health System, 12 LARRY J. TOWNSEND, ESQUIRE 13 DAVID EVANS, ESQUIRE Mateer & Harbert 14 Landmark Center II -- Suite 600 225 East Robinson Street 15 Orlando, Florida 32801 16 For the Defendant, Orlando Regional Healthcare System, Inc., 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1995 1 I N D E X 2 TESTIMONY OF LAWRENCE M. DESTEFANO 3 Cross-Examination (cont'd) by Ms. Marshall 1996 Cross-Examination by Mr. Townsend 2125 4 Redirect Examination by Mr. Osborne 2130 5 E X H I B I T S (In Evidence) 6 Defendant's Exhibit No. 1 2018 Defendant's Exhibit No. 2 2027 7 Defendant's Exhibit No. 3 2031 Defendant's Exhibit No. 4 2039 8 Defendant's Exhibit No. 5 2070 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1996 1 (Continued from Volume XIV) 2 THE COURT: Bring in the jury, please. 3 (Jury enters.) 4 THE COURT: Be seated. Ms. Marshall. 5 MS. MARSHALL: Thank you, Your Honor. 6 CROSS EXAMINATION (cont'd) 7 BY MS. MARSHALL: 8 Q Mr. Destefano, before the break, we were 9 talking about the admissions note that references your 10 mother going limp while you were helping her into the 11 shower. Do you recall that discussion? 12 A No, I do not. 13 Q We established, I think, before the break that 14 this admission note was from your -- the date of your 15 mother's first admission to Florida Hospital, correct? 16 A Correct. 17 Q And it states that this morning while he was 18 helping her into the shower, she became acutely limp and 19 had a blank stare on her face and began to drool; do you 20 see that? 21 A Yes, I do. 22 Q And I believe your testimony on direct was 23 that she became limp when you were helping her off the 24 bed; is that correct? 25 A At this time, I don't recall. I'm sorry. 1997 1 Q Do you agree with this statement that that's 2 why you brought her to Florida Hospital, because she went 3 limp while you were helping her into the shower? 4 A No, I do not. 5 Q Now, do you believe that this was an 6 intentional misstatement or an innocent misstatement? 7 A I don't believe anything. I mean, I have no 8 comment on that. I don't believe it was a lie or a 9 misstatement. 10 Q Okay. So it just may be an error with what 11 they wrote down after interviewing you about your mother; 12 do you agree? 13 A No. I don't know what it is. 14 Q Well, you know when you went to Florida 15 Hospital, you were interviewed by a number of people 16 about why you were bringing your mother to the emergency 17 room, correct? 18 A Correct. 19 Q And from that information that they got from 20 you, Dr. Fleming and Dr. Black prepared an admission note 21 that summarizes all the information and history that they 22 had gathered from you, correct? 23 A I would assume so, yes. 24 Q And one of the pieces of information that they 25 had gathered from you or thought that they had gathered 1998 1 from you was that this morning while he was helping her 2 into the shower, she became acutely limp and had a blank 3 stare on her face and began to drool, correct? 4 A Correct. That's what it says on the chart. 5 Q But you don't believe that that's why you 6 brought her into the hospital. You think that she became 7 limp while you were doing something else, correct? 8 A I believe she became limp and she was, like I 9 said, some saliva was drooling from the mouth, and she 10 might have had a blank stare. 11 Q But you don't remember anything about it being 12 when you were helping her into the shower? 13 A I don't remember any -- I just don't remember 14 that. It could have been. I'm not sure. 15 Q If you can look at page 258 of your 16 deposition, line 25, to 259 line 12, if you can take a 17 moment to review that and see if that refreshes your 18 memory about why you took her to the emergency room at 19 Florida Hospital. 20 A Line what, ma'am? 21 Q Page 258, line 25. 22 A Yes. 23 Q Through page 259 -- 24 A Yes. 25 Q -- line 12. 1999 1 A Yes. (Reviewing transcript.) 2 Q Does that refresh your memory about what were 3 the circumstance surrounding you bringing her to the 4 emergency room? 5 A Yes, it does. 6 Q And why did you bring her to the emergency 7 room? 8 A I was helping my mother to get up so I could 9 take her outside for some physical therapy. 10 Q And my question to you is when the hospital, 11 Florida Hospital, notes state that she went limp this 12 morning while he was helping her into the shower, my 13 question to you is do you think that that was an 14 intentional lie or just a misstatement of the information 15 that you had given to them? 16 MR. OSBORNE: Object, no predicate. 17 THE COURT: Sustained. 18 A You want me to answer that question? 19 Q No. Now, when you took your mom to the 20 hospital, did you provide history and background to the 21 people in the emergency room? 22 A Yes, I did. 23 Q And then at some later time, did you speak 24 with Dr. Fleming and Dr. Steely? 25 A I don't recall a Dr. Fleming, and I really 2000 1 don't recall having conversations with Dr. Steely. 2 Q Okay. And when your mother was at Florida 3 Hospital, you gave her the healthcare that you thought 4 she needed, correct? 5 A I'm sorry. Again, please? 6 Q When your mother was at Florida Hospital, you 7 continued to give her the healthcare that you thought she 8 needed, correct? 9 A That I knew she needed, yes. 10 Q And you gave her physical therapy at Florida 11 Hospital when you thought she needed physical therapy, 12 correct? 13 A I attempted to do that one time, I think. 14 Q If you could turn to page 68 of your 15 deposition, line 3 to 7. 16 A Page 68? 17 Q 268, I'm sorry. 268, line 3 to line 7. 18 A (Reviewing transcript.) Through -- I'm sorry, 19 ma'am. Through? 20 Q Line 3 to line 7 on page 268. 21 A (Reviewing transcript.) Yes. And your 22 question again? 23 Q So would you admit that you gave your mother 24 physical therapy at Florida Hospital when you thought she 25 needed physical therapy? 2001 1 A Yes. 2 Q And people at Florida Hospital would tell you, 3 sir, we can do that physical therapy, but you would say, 4 I know, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to give her 5 physical therapy too, correct? 6 A Correct, yes. 7 Q And you wouldn't let those doctors and nurses 8 tell you when you should and shouldn't give your mother 9 care, correct? 10 A That's not correct. 11 Q Mr. Destefano, if you could read -- 12 A I'm sorry. When I should and shouldn't give, 13 correct, correct. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I wasn't 14 listening correctly. Correct. 15 Q You wouldn't let the doctors and nurses tell 16 you when you should and shouldn't give your mother care, 17 correct? 18 A Correct. I wouldn't let anyone tell me that, 19 that's correct. 20 Q And isn't it true you don't have any 21 complaints with regards to your mother's care that was 22 provided between September 22nd, 1999, and October 5th, 23 1999, at Florida Hospital, correct? 24 A No. Correct, yes. 25 Q Now, let me show you -- there was a letter, I 2002 1 believe it's Plaintiff's 14, which is a letter dated 2 September 22nd, 1999, from Dr. Steely. Do you know which 3 letter I'm referring to? 4 A Is that a question for me, ma'am? 5 Q Yes. Do you remember a letter dated September 6 22nd, 1999, authored by John Steely? I believe it was 7 Exhibit 8 to your deposition. 8 A Can I just look at it for a second? 9 Q Sure. It's the one that's hard to read. 10 A Yes. 11 Q Now, you believe that Dr. Steely lied when he 12 wrote this letter to whom it may concern and described 13 that the nursing staff believed that you were interfering 14 with your mother's care and that the care you provided 15 seemed inappropriate, correct? 16 A Correct. 17 Q And you believe that Dr. Steely created this 18 letter after the fact in order to support Rachel Bean, 19 correct? 20 A Did I believe it at the time? 21 Q That's your belief today, is it not? 22 A Today, yes, it is. 23 Q And so if we were going to keep a list of 24 everyone that lied in this case, number one on the list 25 would be Dr. Steely, correct? You believe that he lied 2003 1 in this case? 2 A Correct. 3 Q Now, I want to show you another document that 4 is in the Florida Hospital records from your mother's 5 first visit between September 15th and September 19th, 6 and I'll show that to you. Do you recognize that 7 document? 8 A Yes, I do. 9 Q And this document states, in part, that 10 nursing believes son providing inappropriate care from 11 not knowing how and interfering with care of patient in 12 hospital, correct? 13 A Correct. 14 Q And this was a weekend note that's dated 15 September 17th, 1999, at 3:28 p.m., correct? 16 A Correct. 17 Q Now, before you went to Florida Hospital, had 18 you ever met Dr. Steely before? 19 A No. 20 Q And you believe that Dr. Steely lied when he 21 wrote this note, don't you? 22 A I don't -- I don't know what -- as far as what 23 part of the note, just the whole note in general? 24 Q No, the part that I read about nursing 25 believes son providing inappropriate care from not 2004 1 knowing how and interfering with care of patient in 2 hospital. 3 A I'm not going to speculate on that, ma'am. 4 Q Okay. Why don't you turn to page 303 of your 5 deposition. Page 303, line 11 through 15. 6 A (Reviewing transcript.) Yes, ma'am. 7 Q You believe that Dr. Steely lied when he wrote 8 this note, don't you? 9 A That's what I -- 10 MR. OSBORNE: Object, Your Honor, relevance. 11 THE COURT: Overruled. 12 A That's what I said. 13 Q Okay. And you believe that the nurses at 14 Florida Hospital never told Dr. Steely that you were 15 providing inappropriate care, correct? 16 A I'm not going to speculate on that, ma'am. 17 Q Well, why don't you look at page 303, line 17 18 to 20 of your deposition. 19 A (Reviewing transcript.) Line what? 20 Q Line 17 to 20. I'm sorry. Let me -- I think 21 it's 19 to 20. I'm sorry. 22 A Would you like me to publish this? 23 Q No. I just want to know it's your position, 24 is it not, that the nurses never told Dr. Steely that you 25 were providing inappropriate care from not knowing how 2005 1 and were interfering with the care of the patient in the 2 hospital? 3 A I said it was a lie, yes, ma'am. I'm sorry. 4 Was -- 5 Q And you said I'm asserting that the nurses 6 never said this to Dr. Steely, correct? 7 A Right. 8 Q And I believe that you have also stated that 9 you believe that this weekend note, progress note from 10 Dr. Steely, was created sometime after September 17th, 11 1999, correct? 12 A Did I say that in the depo? 13 Q Yes. 14 A Then it would be correct, yes. 15 Q That's what you believe, right? 16 A If -- yes, I mean, in hindsight what I think 17 about it now. I think back then I thought, after being 18 accused of all these things, I thought -- I thought a lot 19 of things were a lie. As I think back now, I mean, it's 20 been six years, I mean, I was accused of a lot of things, 21 Ms. Marshall. I thought a lot of things were lies. 22 Q On February 19th, 2002, when you had your 23 deposition taken, you believed that this note was not -- 24 it was not written on September 17th, correct? 25 A Correct. 2006 1 Q Now, let me show you the physician's order 2 that is also dated September 17th, 1999, at, I believe, 3 it's 4:14. 4 A Where at, ma'am? 5 Q It's the one at 4:14. 6 A Okay. 7 Q Doctor's note. 8 A Nursing to provide care. Social services eval 9 for -- 10 Q Potential abuse? 11 A John Steely. 12 Q And family situation? 13 A Yes. 14 Q You've reviewed that medical record in the 15 past, haven't you? 16 A Yes, I have. 17 Q And you also believe that this doctor's order 18 was not written by Dr. Steely on September 17th but 19 rather was written after the fact, correct? 20 A If I stated that in my depo, it would be 21 correct. 22 Q Well, you can look on page 309. 23 A No. I believe you, ma'am. I mean, if it's 24 there, it's correct. 25 Q And that's what you believe, right, that that 2007 1 was created after the fact in order to support the 2 allegations of Rachel Bean, correct? 3 A At the time, I believed there were a lot of 4 lies. 5 Q Now, I'm also going to show you the case 6 management report from the Florida Hospital records dated 7 September 17th, 1999. Do you see that? 8 A Yes, ma'am. 9 Q And, in particular, I'm looking at the portion 10 that says "Son needs considerable supervision and 11 instruction in giving care to patient"; do you see that? 12 A Yes, ma'am. 13 Q And that is signed R. Hadfield, correct? 14 A Correct. 15 Q Did you ever meet with Ms. Hadfield? 16 A I never heard that name or I don't -- no, I 17 never met with a Ms. Hadfield. 18 Q And you believe that this case management 19 report was also written after the fact, correct? 20 A If I stated that in my deposition, it would be 21 correct, yes, ma'am. 22 Q So if -- so what you're saying is that, if I 23 could, whoever R. Hadfield is, they have entered false 24 documents or false statements into the Florida Hospital 25 records, correct? 2008 1 A Please rephrase that. I'm sorry, ma'am. 2 Q You believe this is a fraudulent note, 3 correct, meaning that it was written sometime after 4 September 17th, 1999, backdated and put into the Florida 5 Hospital records in order to support Rachel Bean's 6 allegations against you? 7 A I believe there's been a lot of lies told 8 about me in this case, and if I stated that those were 9 one of the lies, it would be correct. Do I feel that way 10 now in hindsight six years later? I don't know what's a 11 lie and what's not a lie. I do know that there were 12 definitely lies. Now, as to how those tie into other 13 lies to support other things, I'll let the jury decide 14 that. That's not for me. 15 Q Okay. Well, let's just write down R. Hadfield 16 as being one of the potential people who creates false 17 documents and puts them into the Florida Hospital records 18 after the fact. 19 A If you would like to do that, that's fine. 20 Q Okay. And let's go to -- there is also a 21 nurse's note dated September 17th, 1999. Do you recall 22 seeing that? 23 A Yes, I do. 24 Q And do you recognize this as being signed by 25 Nurse Blythe, Kendra Blythe? 2009 1 A Yes, I do. 2 Q And had you ever met Ms. Blythe before she 3 took care of your mom? 4 A I don't know if we ran into each other or not. 5 Q And this entry from September 17th, 1999, says 6 that "Son was forceably walking mother who was slumped 7 over at waist." Did I read that correctly? 8 A I think so, yes. 9 Q And that attempting to get mother out of bed 10 to walk"; did I read that correctly? 11 A I think so, yes. 12 Q Now, is this -- this is another document or 13 another note from the Florida Hospital records that you 14 believe was not written on the date that it says that it 15 was written, correct? 16 A Can I see that? I'm sorry. Did I state that 17 in my deposition? 18 Q Well, this is one of the documents that you 19 identified as not having been created at the time that it 20 indicates on the bottom of the document; is that right? 21 A Yes. If I stated that in my deposition, 22 then -- 23 Q Okay. So these events never occurred that 24 this nurse documented in her notes? 25 A If she said that's what she saw, I'm not 2010 1 disputing that. I'm telling you I was there, and I never 2 forceably walked my mother. And my mother was -- I mean, 3 I think I had testified that I had tried to get my mother 4 some physical therapy, and I knew her legs gave out. 5 But, I mean, if she saw -- if that was her 6 interpretation, I'm not going to say it was a lie, 7 Ms. Marshall. Maybe that was her perception. 8 Q You don't believe, though, you were ever 9 forceably walking your mother while she was slumped over 10 to the waist? 11 A I know that I never forceably walked my 12 mother. I know that. 13 Q Okay. So Kendra Blythe is another one who 14 lies, correct? 15 A No, I didn't say that. I did not say she 16 lies. If that was her perception, so be it. 17 Q Now, would you agree that if your mother 18 needed to be disimpacted while she was at Florida 19 Hospital or Sunbelt nursing home, you would expect the 20 nursing staff to do that procedure? 21 A Yes. 22 Q And would you also agree that it would be 23 appropriate for the nursing staff to take care of her 24 other personal hygiene needs while she was at Florida 25 Hospital? 2011 1 A To some extent, yes. 2 Q Did you ever clean your mother's catheter 3 while she was at Florida Hospital? 4 A Never. 5 Q Let me show you another document that is out 6 of the Florida Hospital records. This one's dated 7 9/16/99. 8 A Yes. 9 Q Where it says, "Catheter care, son," do you 10 see that? 11 A Yes. 12 Q So do you believe that this note is a false 13 document? 14 A No. 15 Q Did you, in fact, do your mother's catheter 16 care on September 16th, 1999? 17 A Explain what catheter care is because I don't 18 even know what we're talking about here. 19 Q Do you know that your mother had a catheter? 20 A I know it's -- yes. 21 Q Do you know what that is? 22 A It's a tube that goes into the urethra. 23 Q Right. To drain the urine from their body? 24 A Yes. 25 Q And catheter care requires you to clean the 2012 1 tube and to wipe all the way around the vagina and the 2 rectum. 3 A And your question being? 4 Q Did you perform catheter care for your mother 5 while she was at Florida Hospital? 6 A No. I wouldn't know how to do that. 7 Q Okay. So if a nurse stated that you did 8 perform your mother's catheter care, she would be lying? 9 MR. OSBORNE: Objection, no predicate. 10 A A nurse has never stated -- 11 THE COURT: Whoa, just a minute. Sustained. 12 Q Let me ask it this way. If the documents in 13 Florida Hospital medical records reflect that you did 14 perform catheter care for your mother while she was at 15 Florida Hospital, those medical records would be wrong or 16 a lie? 17 A They -- that would be a bold -- 18 MR. OSBORNE: Object, no predicate. 19 THE COURT: Just a minute, Mr. Destefano. 20 THE WITNESS: I apologize, Your Honor. 21 THE COURT: When your lawyer starts talking, 22 you need to stop talking. 23 THE WITNESS: I apologize. 24 MR. OSBORNE: The predicate does not say what 25 she said in the question. It says catheter care. 2013 1 THE COURT: Sustained. 2 BY MS. MARSHALL: 3 Q Now, Mr. Destefano, let's talk a little bit 4 about some of the Sunbelt records. You're very familiar 5 with those, are you not? 6 A Yes, I am. 7 Q Are you familiar with the social services 8 progress note dated September 20th, 1999, out of the 9 Sunbelt records? 10 A No, I'm not. 11 Q Could you turn to page 326 of your deposition, 12 please? 13 A I'm sorry, Ms. Marshall. If I said yes then, 14 all I meant is I'm not right now. If you just show it to 15 me. I mean, if I said I was then, just show it to me, 16 and I'll let you know. 17 Q You've reviewed all the records of Sunbelt, 18 correct? 19 A Yes. 20 Q And the statement that I am going to ask you 21 about is the statement that says, "He said that if your 22 staff put so much as one tube in my mother, I will sue 23 you and Florida Hospital." Are you familiar with that 24 statement? 25 A Yes, I am. 2014 1 Q And you deny making that statement, correct? 2 A That statement is a lie. 3 Q And do you know who prepared this progress 4 note? 5 A No, I do not. 6 Q Can you read what it says down here? 7 A No, I cannot. 8 Q So it's M. Watts. Does that sound familiar? 9 A Yes. 10 Q So this progress note that reflects that you 11 made the statement to M. Watts that "He said that if your 12 staff put so much as one tube in my mother, I will sue 13 you and Florida Hospital," that is a false statement, 14 correct? 15 A What I'm telling you, ma'am, is Ms. Watts is a 16 liar, yes. That's a lie. 17 Q I should have asked it that way. I'm sorry. 18 A Yes. 19 Q So let's write that down, M. Watts. And I 20 probably should draw a line here because these are 21 Florida Hospital people, and these are actually Sunbelt 22 people, so we can get everybody straight. 23 Now, Carol Boze, you have read the statements 24 that she has made into the Sunbelt medical records, 25 correct? 2015 1 A Correct. 2 Q And you believe that she lied, correct? 3 A I know she lied. 4 Q Okay. Let's write Carol Boze down. And you 5 have read all the statements or the statement that Mary 6 Thornton wrote in the Sunbelt nursing home records, 7 correct? 8 A Correct. She's a liar. 9 Q And she's a liar? 10 A Yes. 11 Q And Rachel Bean, you've read her statements, 12 correct? 13 A She's a liar. Yes. 14 Q She's a liar. Now, before your mother was 15 admitted to Sunbelt, had you ever met Ms. Boze, 16 Ms. Thornton or Ms. Bean? 17 A No, I had not. 18 Q Now, you know Deborah Jarrell. Do you know 19 that name? 20 A Yes, I do. 21 Q And she's a nurse over at Sunbelt too? 22 A Yes, I believe so. 23 Q And you've read what she wrote in the Sunbelt 24 nursing notes, correct? 25 A Correct. 2016 1 Q And you believe that she lied too? 2 A Her entry is a lie. I believe that's a lie, 3 yes. It wasn't written on the 28th. It was written on 4 the 21st. 5 Q And Kelly Pipkin, you know who Kelly Pipkin 6 is, right? 7 A Yes, I do. 8 Q And you were in the courtroom when she 9 testified by videotape, correct? 10 A Correct. 11 Q And do you believe that she's a liar too? 12 A I know she's a liar. 13 Q Now, your mother was admitted to the VITAS 14 facility on November 7, 1999; is that right? 15 A That's correct. 16 Q And she was taken to VITAS after you cared for 17 her in your home or in Kay's home for a while? 18 A After I cared for her in my home, yes. VITAS 19 came to my door and actually kept soliciting for me to 20 bring my mother to hospice over at Winter Park Hospital, 21 which is Florida Hospital. 22 Q It wasn't at the time, though, was it? 23 A It was in transition. It was Florida Hospital 24 personnel there with their tags. 25 Q VITAS is an independent hospice corporation, 2017 1 is it not? 2 A I don't know. 3 MR. OSBORNE: Object as to -- 4 Q Do you know whether -- 5 MR. OSBORNE: These records are not in 6 evidence. I'm going to object to their being 7 referenced without them being placed in evidence. I 8 have no objection to her doing it in my case, but 9 they're not in evidence. 10 MS. MARSHALL: Your Honor, we can either -- 11 let's approach the bench here on this. 12 (Bench conference.) 13 THE COURT: Are these stipulated records that 14 you want to just move in? 15 MS. MARSHALL: I don't mind doing them in my 16 case; otherwise, I'm going to have to call him back 17 in my case. 18 THE COURT: He doesn't object. These are 19 stipulated records. 20 MR. OSBORNE: If she wants to talk about it, 21 she should move them into it. 22 MS. MARSHALL: I don't mind moving them into 23 evidence. I didn't know I was allowed to do that 24 during your case. 25 (Open court.) 2018 1 MS. MARSHALL: At this time, I'd like to move 2 into evidence as Defendants' Exhibit Y the VITAS 3 records. 4 THE COURT: Hearing no objection, they'll be 5 admitted as Defense Exhibit 1. 6 (Defendants' Exhibit No. 1 was admitted.) 7 BY MS. MARSHALL: 8 Q Mr. Destefano, you do know that your mother 9 was taken to VITAS after you had cared for her in Kay's 10 home, correct? 11 A I took her to VITAS, yes. 12 Q And you're familiar with those medical records 13 as well, are you not? 14 A Not as well as the other ones, but, yes, I am. 15 Q Let me show you the nursing note that is dated 16 November 9th, 1999, that was signed by Kathy Wagner. 17 A Correct. 18 Q And it says: "Patient caregiver spent most of 19 afternoon at her bedside or in bed with her"; do you see 20 that? 21 A Yes, I do. 22 Q And do you -- you deny, don't you, sir, that 23 you have ever laid in bed with your mother while she was 24 at VITAS? 25 A Correct. 2019 1 Q So this document is a lie? 2 A No. The lying in bed is a lie. 3 Q I'm sorry. The part that I read is a lie? 4 A The lying in bed is a lie, correct. 5 Q Okay. So Kathy Wagner is a liar, correct? 6 A If you want to phrase it that way. If she 7 said I was lying in bed with my mother, yeah, she's a 8 liar. 9 Q And let's look at another VITAS record that is 10 dated November 9th, 1999. Are you familiar with this 11 nursing note? 12 A I'm very familiar with it, yes. 13 Q Okay. And it says: "Upon beginning of shift, 14 patient's son was in bed with patient with video camera 15 positioned on tripod taping him laying with patient." 16 Did I read that correctly? 17 A "Upon beginning of shift, patient's son was in 18 bed with patient with video camera positioned on tripod 19 taping him lying with patient." 20 Q Is that correct? 21 A Are you taking that to mean lying in bed with 22 patient? 23 Q No. I'm just asking you whether I read it 24 correctly. 25 A Yes, you did. 2020 1 Q And you believe that this nursing note is also 2 a lie, correct? 3 A No. 4 Q If you could turn to your deposition. I don't 5 know if I gave you the one that has page 109 in it. 6 A No. This starts at 223, ma'am. This is 7 Volume 2. 8 Q I'm sorry. 9 THE WITNESS: Your Honor, could I get some 10 water, please? 11 THE COURT: Certainly. 12 BY MS. MARSHALL: 13 Q This is the one that's dated September 20th, 14 2004. 15 A What page, ma'am? 16 Q Page 20. 17 A Yes. 18 Q I'm sorry, page 109. I apologize. 19 A That's okay. 20 Q It's page 109, line 20. 21 A Okay. 22 Q And if you read down to page 110, line 2. 23 A Do you mind if I read out loud? I think 24 better that way. Would that be okay? 25 Q No, I'd rather you just read it to yourself to 2021 1 refresh your memory. 2 A Okay. Line -- 3 Q Starting at line 20 on page 109. 4 A Yes. 5 Q And reading to line 5 on page 110. 6 A (Reviewing transcript.) Okay. And the 7 question? 8 Q And my question is, you believe that this 9 nursing note about you being in bed with your mother is a 10 lie, correct? 11 A Correct. I know it to be a lie as far as me 12 being in bed with my mother. 13 Q Okay. And I'm going to have to correct -- I'm 14 going to have to correct this. Kelly Pipkin is with 15 ORMC, correct? 16 A That would be correct, yes. 17 Q So we'll put her under ORMC. And then we have 18 Kathy Wagner, and we should have a part up here for 19 VITAS. 20 A Can I correct my answer to this, Ms. Marshall? 21 Q Kathy Wagner. And then who was that note 22 signed by? 23 A I don't know. But could I correct my answer 24 to this? 25 Q Is this Danielle Daley? 2022 1 A Yeah. 2 Q Okay. 3 A Could I correct my answer? 4 Q Correct your answer to what? 5 A To your question. 6 Q Sure. 7 A What I'm saying is as -- whether the 8 document's a lie or not, I don't know that. What I'm 9 telling you is I was there at the time, and I know that I 10 was never in bed with my mother and anything that says 11 that would be a lie. 12 Q So if Danielle Daley wrote a nurse's note that 13 said that you were in bed with your mother, Danielle 14 Daley would be lying, correct? 15 A That would be correct, yes. 16 Q I think we're on the same page with that 17 same -- with Kathy Wagner. 18 A Yes. Whoever said I was laying in bed with my 19 mother would be lying, correct. 20 Q And is it your testimony that you have never 21 lied in bed with your mother at any healthcare facility? 22 A No, that's not my testimony. 23 Q You have lied in bed with your mother at a 24 healthcare facility, correct? 25 A I think I -- yes. 2023 1 Q You did that at -- when she was at Florida 2 Hospital between September 15th, 1999, and September 3 19th, 1999, did you not? 4 A And if I -- yes. And could I explain? 5 Q No. I just want to know if you were, in fact, 6 in bed with your mother while she was a patient at 7 Florida Hospital between September 15th, 1999, and 8 September 19th, '99. 9 A I vaguely recall, yes, that I was, but could I 10 explain that? 11 Q You can explain when your lawyer gets another 12 opportunity to come back on and ask you more questions. 13 A That's fine. 14 Q Okay. And when you were in bed with your 15 mother while she was a patient at Florida Hospital, you 16 had your feet up off the floor, correct? 17 A I think maybe one foot might have been 18 dangling down. 19 Q Okay. Do you have your deposition that 20 includes page 390? 21 A What volume would that be, Ms. Marshall? 22 Q Let me check. I believe that that is 23 Volume 2. Did I give you Volume 2? 24 A I have Volume 2, yes. What page? 25 Q 390. 2024 1 A Yes. 2 Q Okay. And if you can review lines 17 to 23. 3 A Line what to what? 4 Q 390, line 17. 5 A Yes. 6 Q To line 23. 7 A Yes. (Reviewing transcript.) 8 Q Does that refresh your memory about whether 9 you did, in fact, lie in bed with your mother with your 10 feet off the floor while she was a patient at Florida 11 Hospital between September 15th, 1999, and September 12 19th, 1999? 13 A I don't see where it says feet off the floor. 14 Q Line 22. 15 A Laying in a supine position, that is, with 16 your feet off the floor. Yes. Okay. 17 Q Does that refresh your memory? 18 A I think maybe one leg was dangling down. 19 Maybe it wasn't touching the floor. 20 Q Okay. Again, you were in the courtroom today 21 when Lillian Folley testified, correct? 22 A That is correct. 23 Q And she testified that she also observed you 24 in bed beside your mother, correct? 25 A That is correct. 2025 1 Q And is that a true statement? 2 A That's a lie. 3 Q So she's a liar too? 4 A Yeah, she's a liar. I'm sorry. When did she 5 say that? 6 Q When she testified today. 7 Now, Mr. Destefano, you were actually 8 trespassed from the Orlando Police Department, were you 9 not? 10 A No. I was trespassed by your clients. 11 Q Okay. Do you have Volume 1 of your 12 deposition? 13 A Yes, I think so. 14 Q I don't think I gave you that one yet. Let me 15 give you Volume 1, page 69. 16 A Yes. 17 Q Lines 13 through 16. 18 A Yes. (Reviewing transcript.) 19 Q Does that refresh your memory that you were, 20 in fact, served with a trespass notice requiring you to 21 leave the Orlando Police Department? 22 A Yes. I thought you were speaking of Sunbelt. 23 I thought you mentioned Sunbelt earlier. 24 Q Sorry. I apologize if I wasn't clear on that. 25 And do you recall when you were trespassed 2026 1 from the Orlando Police Department? 2 A I know I was trespassed from the Orlando 3 Police Department. 4 Q Let me see if I can refresh your memory a 5 little bit on that. Does this document help refresh your 6 memory as to when you were trespassed from the Orlando 7 Police Department? 8 A I didn't -- I don't need my memory refreshed. 9 I said I remember being trespassed from the police 10 department. I think I just stated that. 11 Q Right. It was in July of 2000. I was asking 12 you whether the document helped you on the exact date. 13 A Yes. 14 Q July of 2000, July 19th? 15 A Yes. 16 Q And isn't it true that you went to the Orlando 17 Police Department on July 19th, 2000, to ask why an 18 investigation wasn't done against Sunbelt on false 19 reporting, correct? 20 A DCFS instructed me to go there because DCF 21 said that they're the ones who do the false reports, and 22 I had to go there. 23 Q And you went there to the Orlando Police 24 Department? 25 A Yes. 2027 1 Q And you kept insisting on seeing the police 2 chief, correct? 3 A No. I called up from the -- I called up from 4 downstairs. There's a little phone you call up. They 5 wanted to know why I was there, and Lieutenant Ellis 6 answered the phone and said he would ring me up. He said 7 come on up. 8 Q On the document that I just handed you, the 9 police report -- 10 A Yes. 11 MS. MARSHALL: I guess we'd go ahead and move 12 this into evidence at this time. 13 MR. OSBORNE: No objection. 14 THE COURT: It will be admitted as Defense 2. 15 (Defendants' Exhibit No. 2 was admitted.) 16 BY MS. MARSHALL: 17 Q On Exhibit 2, does it reflect that Destefano 18 kept insisting on seeing the chief of police? 19 A Yes. 20 Q And does it also state that as a result of his 21 agitated state, Destefano was trespassed from OPH? 22 A Yes. 23 Q And Lieutenant Ellis had about 20 officers 24 surrounding you on the third floor, correct? 25 A They had their rifles and their guns drawn, 2028 1 yes. They surrounded me. There were 20, 30 officers. 2 Q And it's your testimony that they were not -- 3 that you were not yelling, correct? 4 A That's absolutely true, yes. There's three 5 video cameras on that floor. 6 Q You were not yelling. That's your testimony? 7 A Yes, correct. 8 Q And you were not being threatening, correct? 9 A That is correct. I was not threatening. 10 Q And your testimony is that the police were 11 lying about your conduct, correct? 12 A What I'm saying is that the police officers 13 were called many times and had me arrested while I was 14 picketing at the hospital. What I'm saying is your 15 hospital is a very large organization that works closely 16 with the police. What I'm saying is your hospital wanted 17 me off your facility, and what I'm saying is I think your 18 corporation here in Orlando has a lot of influence with 19 the Orlando Police Department. 20 And, yes, that's correct. I would not -- I'm 21 very pro law enforcement, and I would not go into the 22 police department screaming and yelling in an agitated 23 state. That would be foolish. 24 MS. MARSHALL: Your Honor, I would move to 25 strike that last part of the testimony as being not 2029 1 responsive to my question. 2 THE COURT: Motion will be granted. The jury 3 will disregard the answer to the last question. Ask 4 your question again, Ms. Marshall. 5 BY MS. MARSHALL: 6 Q Mr. Destefano, I want to focus on the time 7 that you were in the police -- the Orlando Police 8 Department inquiring about what they had done to 9 investigate your false report complaint. Okay? 10 A Yes. 11 Q That's all we're talking about. 12 A Okay. 13 Q Now, it's your testimony, is it not, that the 14 police are lying about the conduct -- your conduct that 15 is reflected in this police report that has been marked 16 as Exhibit No. 2? 17 A Yes. 18 Q I don't know if we're going to have room for 19 this, but -- well, let's put it down here. We'll just 20 put police. 21 And it is also your position that Lieutenant 22 Ellis is lying about your behavior, correct? 23 A Ma'am, I'm not -- I don't know if I want to 24 say -- I don't know if I want to sit here and call the 25 police officers liars. 2030 1 Q Let's go to page 369 of your deposition, line 2 3 through 6. 3 A Did I call them liars there? 4 Q Sure. 5 A Okay. Well, then -- 6 Q They're liars? 7 A If I said it, then -- 8 Q You would agree that they're liars, that 9 that's your position that they lied, the police lied; is 10 that correct? 11 A Yes, it's correct. They did lie. In 12 reference to my agitated state -- 13 Q There's no question, sir, pending right now. 14 Now, have you ever threatened any of the 15 witnesses in this case? 16 A No. 17 Q This is what's been marked for identification 18 as Defendants' Exhibit I. Mr. Destefano, I have a small 19 version, if you want to take a look at that. 20 MR. OSBORNE: I would ask that counsel move it 21 into evidence if she's going to discuss it and show 22 it to the jury. 23 MS. MARSHALL: We would move it into evidence 24 at this time. 25 MR. OSBORNE: No objection. 2031 1 THE CLERK: Defendants' 3. 2 THE COURT: It will be admitted as Defense 3. 3 MS. MARSHALL: Thank you. 4 (Defendants' Exhibit No. 3 was admitted.) 5 THE WITNESS: (Reviewing document.) 6 BY MS. MARSHALL: 7 Q Do you recognize that letter, Mr. Destefano? 8 A Yes, I do. 9 Q And does your signature appear at the bottom 10 of that letter? 11 A Yes, it does. 12 Q And it was actually a notarized document, 13 correct? 14 A I don't -- is there -- is it notarized? 15 Q As sworn to me before this 19th day of June 16 2000; do you see that? 17 A Yes. 18 Q And this letter was prepared by your attorney, 19 Brad Conway, correct? 20 A Yes, it was. 21 Q And in the last paragraph of the letter right 22 above your signature, it states: "I have reviewed this 23 letter and fully discussed the situation with Mr. Conway, 24 and I fully agree with everything in this letter," 25 correct? 2032 1 A That is correct. 2 Q Could you please publish this letter to the 3 jury? 4 A Sure. "Dear Mrs. Bean, I know that you are 5 willing to tell the truth about Sunbelt administration 6 and the Adventist Health Care Systems. Larry has been 7 through nothing less than absolute misery since his 8 mother was admitted into their healthcare facilities. 9 This is the reason he has picketed and been very vocal 10 about his situation. 11 "Larry and I realize that telling the truth is 12 the first step in addressing the wrongs perpetrated by 13 Sunbelt, and we want you to be able to do so without 14 enduring additional problems. Larry is willing to stay 15 away from you in your workplace because he doesn't want 16 his actions to be misinterpreted in any way. Larry can 17 promise you that he is not a threat to your safety or 18 that of your family. He will stay away from you and your 19 workplace so that you can follow your conscience and do 20 the right thing. 21 "We simply want to get to the truth and his 22 picketing has been designed to draw attention to the 23 facts surrounding Sunbelt and its attempts to conceal the 24 truth from the authorities and the public. 25 "Once again, Larry will promise to stay away 2033 1 from you and your workplace. He will continue to appear 2 at Sunbelt and the surrounding areas, so if you have 3 business there, please don't view his presence as a 4 violation of this promise. Sincerely, Bradley A. Conway. 5 I have reviewed this letter fully and fully 6 discussed this situation with Mr. Conway, and I fully 7 agree with everything in this letter, Larry Destefano, 8 sworn to me this 19th day of June 2000." 9 The signature is illegible to me, and my ID, 10 Florida driver's license D231-533-60-261-0. 11 Q So you were aware that there is a discussion 12 with one of the primary witnesses in this case about the 13 safety of herself and her family as it relates to her 14 testimony, correct? 15 A Correct. 16 Q And you claim that you have never harassed 17 Rachel Bean at her workplace, correct? 18 A Yes, I have never harassed her at all. 19 Q You deny ever harassing her? 20 A I deny ever harassing her, yes, or threatening 21 her, I guess. 22 Q Now, Kelly Pipkin, she was the nurse from ORMC 23 that testified last week, and she testified that she saw 24 you kiss your mother inappropriately at ORMC, correct? 25 A Correct. 2034 1 Q And you claim that you have never harassed 2 her; isn't that correct? 3 A That is correct. 4 Q Now, after this incident at ORMC, you called 5 her on the phone, correct? 6 A Correct. 7 Q And she didn't want to talk to you, did she? 8 A Correct. 9 Q She was upset? 10 A Correct. 11 Q And she kept asking you how you got her phone 12 number? 13 A Correct. 14 Q And you ignored her? 15 A Correct. 16 Q And she kept asking you how you got her phone 17 number? 18 A Correct. 19 Q And you kept -- you continued to ignore her? 20 A Correct. 21 Q And then she hung up on you, correct? 22 A Correct, I guess, yeah. 23 Q And you knew she was angry, correct? 24 A Correct. 25 Q And you called her back later that day or the 2035 1 next day and pretended that you were an investigator, 2 correct? 3 A Correct. 4 Q And you gave her a false name, correct? 5 A Correct. 6 Q And after calling her about three or four 7 times, you stopped calling her, correct? 8 A Correct. 9 Q And you knew that she didn't want you to call 10 her anymore, correct? 11 A Correct. 12 Q And then you also went over to her house 13 sometime in February of 2002, correct? 14 A Correct. 15 Q And you took a private investigator with you, 16 correct? 17 A Correct. 18 Q And two men show up at her house? 19 A Correct. 20 Q And it was in the evening, correct? 21 A Correct. 22 Q And you introduced yourself as Jim Davis, an 23 assistant to your private investigator, correct? 24 A Correct. 25 Q So that was a lie, wasn't it? 2036 1 A Correct. 2 Q Your name is not Jim Davis, is it? 3 A It would be a lie if I said my name was Jim 4 Davis, correct. 5 Q So you lied to a material witness in this 6 case, correct? 7 A Correct. 8 Q Now -- 9 A I didn't know if she was a witness at the 10 time, but correct. 11 Q Now, you knew that she had -- her name 12 appeared on the ORMC medical records, correct? 13 A All I know is she accused me of passionate or 14 kissing my mother, and I just wanted to find out if she 15 really believed that or saw that. 16 Q And Chuck Sherer, you were in the courtroom 17 when he testified, correct? 18 A Correct. 19 Q And you called his house three to five times, 20 correct? 21 A Did I say that in my deposition? 22 Q Page 190. 23 A I mean, did I say it? That would be correct 24 if I did. 25 Q Why don't you turn to page 190 and verify for 2037 1 yourself. 2 A Volume? 3 Q That one's Volume 1. 4 A Line? 5 Q Line 8 to 10. 6 A (Reviewing transcript.) It said two or three 7 times, four, maybe five. 8 Q So somewhere between two and five times, 9 correct? 10 A Correct. 11 Q And when you called him, you used a name other 12 than your own, correct? 13 A I'm not sure. 14 Q Page 191, line 4 to 6. 15 A Line 46? 16 Q Line 4 through line 6. 17 A (Reviewing transcript.) It says I might have. 18 Q So you might have called him and used a name 19 other than your own, correct? 20 A I might have. 21 Q And you also might have misrepresented 22 yourself to his family, correct? 23 A I might have. 24 Q And that misrepresentation is another type of 25 lie, is it not? 2038 1 A If I had, yes, it would be. 2 Q Now, you've also spoken to Dr. Ted Hamilton, 3 the medical director at Florida Hospital, correct? 4 A Correct. 5 Q Do you recall saying to Dr. Hamilton the 6 following: "Do you know what I do every day, Ted? Do 7 you know what I do? I look for you, Ted. I'm looking 8 for you. I go to Sam Snead's and to Houston's. If I 9 find you, I'm going to hurt you. Ted, you made a mistake 10 when you asked about my mother after she died. I'm going 11 to fucking hurt you, Ted. I'm going to fucking hurt you, 12 Ted." 13 Do you recall saying those words to Dr. Ted 14 Hamilton? 15 A Yes. I recall it being a lot more graphic 16 than that, but, yes, I did. 17 Q Okay. Now, you agree, do you not, that you 18 would frequently kiss your mother on the corner of her 19 lips? 20 A Yes, whenever -- 21 Q "Yes"? 22 A I'm sorry. I apologize. Yes. 23 Q And isn't it true that it would be impossible 24 for you to list each and every time you kissed your 25 mother while she was a resident at Sunbelt? 2039 1 A No, that wouldn't be impossible to list every 2 time. 3 Q Do you recall, Mr. Destefano, having some 4 interrogatories sent to you where you were asked to 5 provide written responses to written questions in this 6 litigation? 7 A Yes, I do. 8 MS. MARSHALL: And if we could, this is 9 Defendants' Exhibit R. I would like to move the 10 interrogatories and the answers to interrogatories 11 into evidence at this time. 12 THE COURT: They'll be admitted. 13 THE CLERK: Defendants' 4. Excuse me, ma'am. 14 I'll keep the depos, but this is getting crowded. 15 MS. MARSHALL: May I approach the witness, 16 ma'am? 17 THE COURT: Sure. 18 (Defendants' Exhibit No. 4 was admitted.) 19 BY MS. MARSHALL: 20 Q Mr. Destefano, if you would, could you look at 21 the Interrogatory No. 20? And you have to start with the 22 first set of interrogatories to plaintiff. 23 A First set of interrogatories, correct. 24 Q Could you turn to Question 20? 25 A Yes. 2040 1 Q And could you read what that says? 2 A "List each and every time you kissed Carolina 3 Destefano while she was a resident at Sunbelt Health Care 4 and Subacute center. For each episode of kissing, state 5 the number of times you kissed Carolina Destefano, the 6 duration of each kiss, and the location and manner of 7 each kiss." 8 Q And then if you could turn to plaintiff's 9 answers to defendants' interrogatories, and first of 10 all -- 11 A On page 20, it says, see attached. 12 Q And it's attached on page 15, I believe. 13 A Page 15. 14 Q Look at the bottom. 15 A At the bottom, response to Question 20? 16 Q Correct. Could you read what your response 17 was? 18 A "To list each and every time I kissed my mom 19 while she was a resident at Sunbelt would be impossible. 20 We kissed each other in the same location right at the 21 corner of the lips. If you place your finger there, you 22 will feel a little nook. We kissed each other with the 23 same frequency and duration we have our entire lives and 24 in the same manner I've seen countless other children of 25 all ages kiss their mothers briefly and casually kind of 2041 1 like a peck." 2 Q So would you agree with me that it would be 3 impossible for you to count the number of times that you 4 kissed your mother while she was a resident at Sunbelt? 5 A Yes, I would agree with you. 6 Q And she was at Sunbelt for approximately 40 7 hours, correct? 8 A If that's what the record reflects, I would 9 agree with that. 10 Q Now, after your mother was released from the 11 psychiatric facility, you brought her to her home in 12 Arizona, correct? 13 A Correct. 14 Q And very shortly after you brought her home, 15 you immediately became aware of her impaction problem, 16 correct? 17 A Correct. 18 Q That was within a few days of bringing her 19 home? 20 A I think that was that night. 21 Q And nobody from the psychiatric hospital had 22 warned you that she had an impaction problem, did they? 23 A No, they did not. 24 Q And you were given verbal directions from a 25 nurse on how to do this procedure, correct? 2042 1 A I was given verbal directions, I looked on the 2 Internet, I mean, from various sources. 3 Q Well, from the nurse in the emergency room 4 that you testified to, she gave you verbal directions, 5 correct? 6 A Verbal, hand directions, you know, it was 7 altogether. It was a, you know, talking and showing me 8 and, you know. Actually, I think she had, you know, I 9 had seen the doctor do it. We were having a discussion 10 about it because I was surprised I didn't know a health 11 caregiver could do such a procedure. 12 Q So you were given verbal directions from the 13 nurse? 14 A Along with many other types of, yes. 15 Q And you also received instructions from your 16 friend Mark Koller over the phone, correct? 17 A Correct. Yes, I did. 18 Q But you were never shown how to properly 19 disimpact your mother by a healthcare professional, were 20 you? 21 A You mean visually actually watching them doing 22 it to my mother? 23 Q Correct. 24 A Correct. 25 Q Or on anything else? I mean, you didn't watch 2043 1 them do a disimpaction to learn how to do it? 2 A You mean like an anatomical doll or a video or 3 some type of training? 4 Q Correct. 5 A No. 6 Q And nobody told you that you should not do 7 this procedure if she developed hemorrhoids, did they? 8 A No, they did not. 9 Q And at no point in time did any nurse tell you 10 to watch out for certain signs or symptoms that could be 11 a warning that you had disimpacted her incorrectly, 12 correct? 13 A No. I think Mark had specifically spoken to 14 me, you know, told me in conversation. 15 Q If you could turn to your deposition of 16 September 20th, 2004, page 64. 17 A Yes. 18 Q Line 25 through page 65, line 4. 19 A Line 25? 20 Q I'm sorry. It's page 64, line 25. 21 A Yes. 22 Q Through page 65, line 3. Actually, line 4. 23 A (Reviewing transcript.) Okay. 24 Q So isn't it true that at no point in time did 25 any nurse tell you to watch out for certain signs or 2044 1 symptoms that could be a warning that you had disimpacted 2 her incorrectly? 3 A No, that's not true. 4 Q And the question was asked to you on page 64: 5 "Question: Okay. What I'm asking you is did 6 any of them tell you to watch out for any of these 7 signs or symptoms that could be a warning that 8 something had gone wrong, that you had done 9 something incorrectly? 10 "Answer: No, no conversations like that. It 11 was very, you know, it was very common procedure. 12 Everyone put me at ease. They didn't -- I mean, 13 there was never this discussion that we're having 14 now on there's this danger or, you know, that there 15 could be this great risk. I mean, there was never 16 that. It was just a very, you know, just simple 17 logic, be careful, take your time and use a lot of 18 lubricant." 19 Now, your mother needed to be disimpacted 20 every two to three days during those eight months that 21 you were taking care of her in Arizona, correct? 22 A Every two to three days? 23 Q Correct. 24 A If you could point me to where I said it. 25 Q 269 of your February 19th deposition. 2045 1 A That's incorrect, by the way, I know that. 2 Q And that is page 269. The question was asked: 3 "Do you have a sense of how often you" -- 4 A Excuse me. What line? 5 Q It's line 10 on 269. 6 "Question: Do you have a sense of how often 7 that was necessary? Once a week, once a day? 8 "Answer: Approximate -- I would do it -- she 9 needed -- she probably needed to be disimpacted 10 every two to three days, and I just -- I tried to do 11 that as -- as it was not a procedure that I enjoyed 12 doing. It was not a procedure I wanted to do. And 13 there's, I feel, a lot of guilt for not doing it as 14 often as I felt I should have because I would let it 15 go, and I did it approximately every five to seven 16 days." 17 A I did it approximately every five to seven 18 days. 19 Q And your testimony was that she actually 20 needed it every two to three days, correct? 21 A No. My testimony is I did it approximately 22 every five to seven days. 23 Q And my question is it was your testimony that 24 she probably needed to be disimpacted every two to three 25 days, correct? 2046 1 A That's what you're stating now, but that 2 wasn't your original question. Your original question 3 was I disimpacted my mother every two to three days. 4 Q My original question was your mother needed to 5 be disimpacted every two to three days, correct? 6 A That's incorrect. I disimpacted my mother 7 every five to seven days. 8 Q Okay. And, Mr. Destefano, isn't it correct 9 that this disimpaction procedure was not embarrassing for 10 either you or your mother, correct? 11 A Correct. It was not embarrassing for my 12 mother and I. It was a very disturbing procedure when I 13 first did this first few times, but, no, it was not 14 embarrassing. 15 Q And the reason it wasn't embarrassing is 16 because you pretended to be her doctor, correct? 17 A That is correct. 18 Q And when you thought she needed to have a 19 bowel movement, you would leave the room and you wouldn't 20 say anything for five minutes, correct? 21 A Put everything in context, ma'am. I don't 22 know what you're saying. I would leave the room -- when 23 she needed to be disimpacted, I would walk away for five 24 minutes? 25 Q Correct. 2047 1 A For what purpose? 2 Q Page 67, line 24 through 68, line 5 of your 3 September 20th, 2004, deposition. 4 A Will that put everything in context? 5 Q Why don't we just turn to that page. 6 A What volume again? I'm sorry. 7 Q It is the September 20th, 2004, deposition, 8 page 67. 9 A It's easier on the volume, if you could just 10 tell me the volume -- 11 Q This is actually the one that doesn't have the 12 volume because it was the last one on September 20th -- 13 A Oh, yes, I have it. 14 Q -- 2004. 15 A And the page? 16 Q Page 68. 17 A Yes. 18 Q Starting with line 21. 19 A (Reviewing transcript.) What was the original 20 question? I'm sorry, Ms. Marshall. 21 Q My question is, when you thought she needed to 22 have a bowel movement, you would leave the room and you 23 wouldn't say anything for five minutes, correct? 24 A And you want me to start at line -- 25 Q 21. I just want you to read it to yourself 2048 1 through line 24. 2 A (Reviewing transcript.) Oh, right, okay. 3 Well -- I apologize. Line what through what? 4 Q Page 67 -- 5 A Yes. If it -- 6 Q Got that? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Line 21. 9 A Yes. 10 Q Through line 24. 11 A Yes, I said that, but it explains -- 12 Q Okay. My question is, that when you thought 13 she needed to have a bowel movement, you would leave the 14 room, and you wouldn't say anything for five minutes, 15 correct? 16 A Yes. I mean, on some occasions, yes. 17 Q And then rather than call out, Mom, you would 18 call out from the other room, Mrs. Destefano, are you 19 ready for Dr. Cruz, and she would say, oh, hi, Doctor, 20 right? 21 A Yes. Could I explain the whole -- I could 22 explain it a lot faster instead of just going by the 23 cards. I mean, I could explain why I was doing all that. 24 Q You'll get an opportunity when your lawyer 25 asks you questions again. This is my turn. 2049 1 And then you would role play like this before 2 you would disimpact her, correct? 3 A Correct. 4 Q And you thought it was just great, correct? 5 A I thought it was just great? 6 Q Page 68, line 1 through 5. 7 A I didn't hear that. I thought it was just 8 great? 9 Q You thought it was just great? 10 A If that's what I said, correct. 11 Q And it worked out fine for both of you, 12 correct? 13 A Is that what it says? 14 Q You're welcome to read it, Mr. Destefano. 15 It's page 68. 16 A If it says that, that's correct. 17 Q And you weren't embarrassed, correct? 18 A If it says that, correct. 19 Q And she wasn't embarrassed, correct? 20 A Correct. 21 Q Now, once your mother was admitted to Florida 22 Hospital, you would constantly remind the nurses that 23 your mother needed to be disimpacted, correct? 24 A Yes. I would always remind everyone she 25 needed to be disimpacted. 2050 1 Q And you would come into the facility and 2 wonder where the fecal matter was or whether she had been 3 disimpacted, correct? 4 A In what facility? 5 Q Florida Hospital. 6 A I would wonder where the fecal matter was? 7 Q Page 270, line 2 to 11 on your -- 8 A Volume? 9 Q That would be -- I believe that's Volume 2. 10 Yeah, 270 is Volume 2. 11 A 270, line -- 12 Q It's line 7 through 16. 13 A (Reviewing transcript.) And you're just 14 asking me that I would wonder where the fecal matter was? 15 Is that what -- 16 Q The question was: 17 "Question: Do you recall any conversations 18 with any of the nursing staff, for instance, that 19 suggested to you that this is a procedure that the 20 nursing staff would handle and it was not necessary 21 for you to do it while she was in the hospital? 22 "Answer: No. I recall letting -- constantly 23 reminding the nurses that -- I would come in and 24 wonder where the fecal matter was or was she 25 disimpacted or was she having bowel movements, and 2051 1 they assured me that they were checking her. I just 2 wanted to keep reminding them so that they would 3 check, you know, there would be no reason for me to 4 provide that kind of medical treatment in a medical 5 setting. There would be no -- absolutely no reason 6 to disimpact my mother while she is -- while she's 7 in a -- while she's in a medical facility." 8 A Correct. So you're asking if I was wondering 9 where my mother's fecal matter was? Is that your 10 question originally? 11 Q Sir, that was your answer to that question, 12 was it not? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Okay. Now, isn't it true that you often slept 15 with your mother in the same bed when you lived with her 16 in Arizona? 17 A There came a point where I always slept in the 18 same bed with my mother in Arizona. 19 Q And this was because she had a tendency to get 20 up and wander in the middle of the night? 21 A It was a -- that was originally why I did, and 22 then there came a point where I just knew that she just 23 knew her son was there and she felt safe and secure. And 24 it was a wonderful -- I just -- my mom knew I was in bed 25 with her, and she felt safe. 2052 1 Q And when she was -- when she had this -- when 2 you're in the period of time when she had a tendency to 3 wander, you never considered putting a baby monitor or 4 something like that in the bedroom so you would hear her 5 if she woke up, correct? 6 A No. I considered my method safer than that. 7 Q And you never considered putting bells on the 8 door so that you could hear her when she got up, correct? 9 A No. I don't know why I would. 10 Q And you never considered that it might be 11 embarrassing for her to sleep with her grown son, did 12 you? 13 A I considered everything about my mother, and 14 if there was any slight thought that she was embarrassed 15 by that at all, it wouldn't take place. I knew my 16 mother. And, ma'am, believe me, she was not embarrassed 17 by anything I did with her, and her dignity was 18 maintained at all times, at all times. She was never 19 embarrassed by anything I did with my mother. I assure 20 you, all of you. 21 Q But there was -- 22 A That's the truth. 23 Q But there was one time when you told her that 24 it was time to go to bed, and she looked at you and said 25 no, no, no, no, not tonight, correct? 2053 1 A That's right. 2 Q And that was the only time where she might 3 have confused you as her son or some type of boyfriend or 4 lover, correct? 5 A That's right, yeah. 6 Q And you've -- 7 A Can I explain that? 8 Q When your attorney gets back up, you'll have 9 an opportunity in his questioning. 10 Now, you've testified that when she first got 11 out of the psychiatric facility at Mariposa -- 12 A Maricopa. 13 Q -- Maricopa, that you would take her out every 14 day to get exercise? 15 A Every -- yes. It was every day, every 16 morning. I put her jogging shoes on. I put her socks 17 on, tennis socks. 18 Q You actually took her jogging in that period 19 of time, correct? 20 A Correct. 21 Q So -- 22 A I mean, she did a little jog. She would -- 23 with a wonderful smile on her face because she hadn't 24 have done it. She was in the psychiatric ward. I 25 brought her home; we started jogging. She was doing the 2054 1 same thing she did before. 2 Q And it was your testimony that she was in 3 great health, great shape, just a little disoriented at 4 this time, correct? 5 A That's right. That's correct. 6 Q And this was the same time period that you 7 were role playing as Dr. Cruz, correct? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q I want to talk to you, Mr. Destefano, a little 10 bit about the damages that you have testified about. You 11 have claimed, and I believe you testified on direct, that 12 because of what these doctors and nurses wrote in your 13 mother's medical records, that you are experiencing chest 14 pains, correct? 15 A No. I testified what they accused me of 16 doing. 17 Q And that was -- those accusations were 18 contained in the medical records at Florida Hospital, 19 Sunbelt nursing home and ORMC, correct? 20 A Yes, yes. I have severe chest pains. I have 21 pain that radiates down my arm. I have pain in my gut. 22 Q And you claim that you have never had these 23 chest pains before the allegations, correct? 24 A That's correct. 25 Q And no physician has ever suggested that your 2055 1 alleged chest pain is in any way related to the 2 allegations raised in this lawsuit, have they? 3 A I won't go to a hospital. I won't go to 4 doctors. No, they haven't. 5 Q So the answer is no? 6 A That's right. It's no. 7 Q And you are also seeking damages today for 8 depression and for being withdrawn, correct? 9 A Correct. 10 Q And you have hyperthyroidism, correct? 11 A That's correct. 12 Q But you were diagnosed with hyperthyroidism 13 before these allegations occurred, correct? 14 A That's correct. 15 Q And you are not in any way asserting that your 16 hyperthyroidism was in any way impacted by the 17 allegations raised in this lawsuit, correct? 18 A Of course that would be correct because it was 19 before the incident, yes. 20 Q And one of the symptoms of a person with 21 hyperthyroidism is that they're slow and lethargic, 22 correct? 23 A Not if they're taking their dose every day 24 properly. I wouldn't say so. I never heard that. I 25 don't know. I'm not a doctor. 2056 1 Q You suffered from symptoms of being slow and 2 very lethargic before these allegations ever occurred, 3 correct? 4 A When I was -- when I was trying to get my 5 medication, you know, regulated. 6 Q That would be correct? 7 A Yes. I mean, did I say that in the 8 deposition, ma'am? 9 Q Page 133. 10 A Did I say it? 11 Q You want to look? 12 A No. If I said it, it's correct. Is there a 13 procedure? Am I supposed to just look at it? 14 Q If you want to look at it to refresh your 15 memory, you're welcome to it. It's page -- 16 A No. I mean, if you say it's there, it's 17 correct. That's all I'm saying. I just don't -- 18 Q Mr. Destefano, you're claiming that because of 19 what these doctors and nurses wrote in your mother's 20 medical records, that your left arm has gone numb on 21 almost a daily basis, correct? 22 A Yeah. My chest hurts. My left arm is numb. 23 My right arm sometimes. 24 Q So that would be yes? 25 A My gut. My back. There's a pain that shoots 2057 1 from the middle of the chest to my back. 2 Q And my question just concerned your left arm 3 numbness. 4 A Yes, that's correct. 5 Q And isn't it true that no healthcare provider 6 has ever suggested that your left arm numbness is related 7 to the allegations in this lawsuit? 8 A I don't go to doctors. No, no one has ever 9 said that. That would be correct. 10 Q And you claim that you have never experienced 11 problems with your left arm going numb before these 12 allegations, correct? 13 A Correct. 14 Q Now, isn't it true that before these 15 allegations, your arm -- your left arm suffered 16 third-degree burns? 17 A That's correct. 18 Q And you had to have skin graft surgery on your 19 left arm, correct? 20 A That's correct. 21 Q And this was a result of an injury that you 22 received while you were in the Navy, correct? 23 A That's correct. 24 Q You were in the briggs in the San Diego Naval 25 Station, that's correct? 2058 1 A That's correct. 2 Q And you were handcuffed and placed on a hot 3 deck? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q And a brigg is a jail or a prison, correct? 6 A That's correct. 7 Q And the deck burned your left arm? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q And those burns were third-degree burns, 10 correct? 11 A Yes, that's correct. 12 Q And the burns on your left arm happened way 13 before these allegations, correct? 14 A That's correct. 15 Q Now, you have seen doctors, haven't you, 16 Mr. Destefano? 17 A I was brought to a hospital. Mark and Mieko 18 actually forced me to go to the hospital on two occasions 19 when I couldn't get up and walk. They brought me in the 20 car and drove me there. I was refusing. 21 Q You have been to doctors over the last six 22 years, haven't you? 23 A I think I was brought to two -- no, I haven't 24 gone to doctors. 25 Q You've gotten your thyroid medicine filled? 2059 1 A Yes, I have. 2 Q And to do that you had to have seen a 3 physician, haven't you? 4 A No. 5 Q And I believe that you testified that you went 6 to a clinic out in Ocoee, correct? 7 A A clinic? That's where I was brought to a 8 hospital where I was suffering from severe pancreatitis. 9 Mark drove me there and forced me to go there. I didn't 10 want to go. 11 Q So you have been to doctors in the last six 12 years? 13 A I just said I was forced to go to two 14 hospitals because they threw me -- I went kicking. I 15 wouldn't go. I couldn't get up out of bed, and they 16 forced me to go. 17 Q And you also have seen a psychologist, have 18 you not, that's going to testify tomorrow for the 19 purposes of damages, correct? 20 A Correct. 21 Q And other than the psychiatrist and 22 psychologist that have examined you for the purpose of 23 testifying for damages, you have not discussed your 24 anger, your withdrawal, your hatred, or your depression 25 with any other healthcare professional, correct? 2060 1 A That's correct. 2 Q And you claim that as a result of the 3 incidents at Sunbelt, you are suffering from problems 4 with your anger, correct? 5 A I'm sorry, ma'am. Say again. 6 Q You're claiming that as a result of the 7 incidents at Sunbelt, you're suffering from problems with 8 your anger? 9 A Yeah, my rage, my anger. 10 Q And it's your testimony that you've never had 11 anger problems before your mom was at Sunbelt, correct? 12 A No. I didn't get -- I don't get -- no. 13 That's correct. I'm sorry. That would be correct. 14 Q You've never had any anger issues? 15 A I mean, normal anger, I mean, just like any 16 other normal people in society would, but nothing more, 17 nothing less. 18 Q And you claim that you never lost your temper 19 while you were in the military, correct? 20 A I wouldn't say I never lost my temper. 21 Nothing more, nothing less. People lose their temper. 22 Did I say I never lost my temper, ma'am, in my 23 deposition? I would say correct if I did say that. 24 Q Well, let me just show you your deposition 25 that was taken August 31st, 2004. 2061 1 A What page? 2 Q Page 115. I'm sorry, it's page 10, line 2 to 3 4. Is that correct? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q You claim that you never lost your temper 6 while in the military? 7 A Correct. I mean, if you read down further, 8 but, you know, yeah, that's correct. 9 Q And you're aware that your superiors thought 10 that you had lost your temper while you were in the 11 military, correct? 12 A That's correct. 13 Q And they were liars also, correct? 14 A I'm not calling them liars. 15 Q They were wrong; is that correct? 16 A You just said I called them liars. 17 Q They were wrong, correct? 18 A I'm not going to say they were wrong. 19 Q Look on page -- 20 A If I said they were wrong -- 21 Q -- page 10, line 23 to 24. 22 A (Reviewing transcript.) Okay. They were 23 wrong, and I stand corrected on that. 24 Q Were you ever disciplined for not being able 25 to control your temper? 2062 1 A No. 2 Q You were disciplined numerous times in the 3 Navy, correct? 4 A Yes, correct. 5 Q And weren't you placed under maximum security 6 because of your unmanageable behavior? 7 A Maximum security? 8 Q Correct. 9 A I don't recall that, no. Refresh my memory, 10 please. 11 Q I believe this is part of Defendants' 12 Exhibit M. 13 A Okay. No, I wasn't placed in maximum 14 security. Did you just ask me if I was placed in maximum 15 security? 16 Q That's correct. So if there are -- let me 17 back up. 18 Were you examined by a psychiatrist when you 19 were in the military? 20 A Are we finished with the maximum security? 21 Q We're going to get back to it. 22 A Okay. 23 Q Were you examined by a psychiatrist in the 24 military? 25 A I don't recall. If you could refresh my 2063 1 memory. 2 Q Do you want to look at this to refresh your 3 memory? 4 A There's a psych eval here, yes, in 1981. 5 Q And were you seen by a psychiatrist after you 6 were placed in maximum security because of your 7 unmanageable behavior? 8 A Was I in maximum security? 9 Q Correct. 10 A I'm asking was I in maximum security? I don't 11 know. Is that your -- 12 Q That's my question. 13 A You're asking me if I was evaluated after I 14 was in maximum security? 15 Q Correct. 16 A I just said I don't -- I wasn't in maximum 17 security. 18 Q Okay. So you don't believe that you were in 19 maximum security while you were in the military? 20 A No. I wasn't in maximum security. That's 21 what I -- 22 Q Okay. 23 A That's what I said. I mean, if you could show 24 me something. 25 Q I have the highlighted version, Mr. Destefano. 2064 1 Maybe that will help refresh your memory. 2 A Okay. 3 Q Do you recall being placed in maximum security 4 as a result of additional charges and your increasingly 5 unmanageable behavior? 6 A No. 7 Q Now, isn't it true, Mr. Destefano, that you 8 have suffered from depression and excessive worry since 9 1981? 10 A No, that's not true. 11 Q Is it true that you reported to the United 12 States Navy that you suffered from depression and 13 excessive worry? 14 A That is not true. 15 MS. MARSHALL: This is actually a part of 16 Exhibit M, which we would like to move into evidence 17 at this time. 18 MR. OSBORNE: Object, hearsay. 19 THE COURT: Approach the bench. 20 (Bench conference.) 21 MS. MARSHALL: It's his report. He signed it. 22 THE WITNESS: Do you mind if I stretch, Your 23 Honor? 24 THE COURT: Go ahead, sure. 25 THE WITNESS: May I use the restroom as well, 2065 1 Your Honor, real quick? 2 (Open court.) 3 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, let's take 4 about a five-minute recess or so. Deputy, if you'd 5 take the jury out, please. 6 THE COURT DEPUTY: All rise for the jury. 7 (Jury exits.) 8 THE COURT: This is still on record. The 9 objection is hearsay. What is your response to that 10 objection? 11 MS. MARSHALL: Your Honor, this is his 12 statement. He had completed a questionnaire. He 13 signed it and has certified that he has reviewed the 14 foregoing information. 15 THE COURT: So this is a statement against 16 interest? 17 MS. MARSHALL: It's his statement, correct. 18 MR. TOWNSEND: It's in the context of a report 19 on other information contained by other folks. 20 MR. OSBORNE: There are things on here other 21 than his admission against interest contained in the 22 document. That's my only -- my only comment on 23 that. This is not just an admission against 24 interest. It also contains hearsay information from 25 the Department of the Navy. 2066 1 THE COURT: But you're offering it only for 2 the -- 3 MS. MARSHALL: It's not hearsay because it's 4 the declarant's own statement. 5 THE COURT: Well, I don't know what it is. 6 Mr. Osborne is saying that there's other information 7 on here other than the plaintiff's statements, and 8 what other information is there on here other than 9 the plaintiff's statement? 10 MR. OSBORNE: The beginning part and the 11 ending part. 12 THE COURT: The report of medical history? 13 MR. OSBORNE: Correct, that paragraph. 14 THE COURT: Up here, the written information? 15 MR. OSBORNE: Yes, Your Honor. 16 THE COURT: You're saying that's not his 17 handwriting? 18 MR. OSBORNE: I know that the stamp is not his 19 information, the stamped information. Same as on 20 the bottom of the second page, that's not his 21 information either, but somebody else stamped 22 something on there and signed it. 23 THE COURT: This stamp number eight, "All 24 affirmative answers have been evaluated and found to 25 be of no clinical significance at this time are in 2067 1 CD." 2 MR. OSBORNE: That's hearsay. I don't mind 3 her asking about what he said and cross-examining on 4 it, but the document should not go into evidence 5 because there are other statements by other 6 declarants other than him. 7 THE COURT: What do you say about that, 8 Ms. Marshall? Can you remove those portions of that 9 document or do you want to respond? 10 MS. MARSHALL: Well, I don't believe that this 11 was -- when we exchanged exhibits, that that was one 12 of the grounds. They had objected on the grounds of 13 relevancy but not on any hearsay grounds. 14 THE COURT: Are you saying that he waived his 15 objection? 16 MS. MARSHALL: And that would be subject to 17 check, Your Honor. I would want to go and check our 18 pretrial, but it's my memory that the only objection 19 that was raised was relevancy. 20 THE COURT: And you're saying that by not 21 raising that hearsay objection on the pretrial 22 statement or stipulation, that that constitutes a 23 waiver? 24 MS. MARSHALL: Correct. Again, I would want 25 to check. 2068 1 THE COURT: Okay. What do you say? 2 MR. TOWNSEND: I was just going to say also 3 the other hearsay matter that are statements by the 4 declarant on here aren't necessarily being offered 5 for the truth of the matter asserted in that 6 hearsay, so the only thing being offered for the 7 truth of the matter is his statement. 8 THE COURT: Let me just say that those other 9 matters are inconsequential to this document. I'm 10 going to admit the document and overrule the 11 objection. Let's take a brief recess. 12 MS. MARSHALL: Thank you, Your Honor. 13 (A 5-minute recess was had.) 14 THE COURT: Bring in the jury. 15 THE COURT DEPUTY: Yes, ma'am. 16 (Jury enters.) 17 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, I know you 18 may have some curiosity about how we are -- how late 19 we're going tonight. I do not believe we will go 20 much past 6:00. Is that going to present an 21 insurmountable problem for any of you or is that 22 acceptable? That's another 30 minutes. Okay. Go 23 ahead. 24 BY MS. MARSHALL: 25 Q Mr. Destefano, the document that I had just 2069 1 handed you -- 2 A The report of medical history? 3 Q Correct. Does your signature appear on the 4 second page? 5 A It appears to be my signature. 6 Q Okay. And on the first page, there is a 7 checklist regarding certain symptoms or ailments, 8 correct? 9 A Yes. 10 Q And it asks whether you -- have you ever had 11 or have you now, correct? 12 A Yes. 13 Q And over on the far right column where it has 14 listed depression or excessive worry, you've checked yes, 15 correct? 16 A Yes, I have. Can I explain that? 17 Q And that was a report of medical history dated 18 June 24th of 1981, correct? 19 A It relates to 6 -- yes. 20 Q 6/24/81? 21 A Yes. Can I explain that? 22 MS. MARSHALL: I would like to at this time 23 move this into evidence. I think it should be 24 probably moved in separately because Exhibit M 25 was -- had more documents to it. 2070 1 MR. OSBORNE: Same objection as made before. 2 THE COURT: Overruled. It will be admitted. 3 THE CLERK: Defense 5. 4 (Defendants' Exhibit No. 5 was admitted.) 5 BY MS. MARSHALL: 6 A Can I explain that, ma'am? 7 Q Mr. Destefano, the rules are the same. You 8 will get an opportunity to answer -- 9 A Oh, okay. 10 Q -- whatever questions your lawyer asks you 11 when you -- 12 A Should I just not answer that question anymore 13 as far as being able to explain it and just -- 14 Q I'm sure that your attorneys have given you 15 instructions, so -- 16 A No, they haven't. 17 Q -- I'll just leave it at that. 18 A I'm just asking should I not answer that 19 question anymore? 20 Q Mr. Destefano, are you taking prescription 21 drugs for your depression? 22 A No, I'm not. 23 Q But you have in the past taken illegal drugs 24 that your friends have given you, correct? 25 A Illegal drugs? 2071 1 Q Correct. 2 A You're going to have to explain that one to 3 me, ma'am. 4 Q Page 613. 5 A Yes. 6 Q That's the last one. 7 A Do we want to clear these out? 8 Q Sure. You may need these again. Keep those 9 there. 10 A What line? 11 Q It is page 613, line 24. 12 A Yes. 13 Q To page 614, line 4. 14 A 24 to 4? 15 Q Correct. 16 A Friends -- and we are talking illegal -- 17 right. They're legal drugs that I take illegally because 18 they're not prescribed to me. That's -- they're not 19 illegal drugs. I mean, it's not like I'm taking heroin 20 or anything like that, but, yes, friends who have drug 21 prescriptions, Xanax, Valiums, prescribed to them. 22 Q You take those? 23 A Yes, I take those. 24 Q Now, you claim that you are -- 25 A But not for -- did you say for depression? 2072 1 Did you -- 2 Q Well, Xanax and Valium, correct? 3 A Correct. 4 Q You're not taking those for depression? 5 A Absolutely not. 6 Q What are you taking them for? 7 A Ma'am, I'm taking that for what you and your 8 company has put me through because of your lies. That's 9 what I take it for. 10 Q So you take it -- 11 A To calm me down. That's what I take these 12 drugs for because I never took these drugs before they 13 did what they did to me. I never had to. 14 MS. MARSHALL: Your Honor, I move to strike 15 the last part of his response as being nonresponsive 16 to my question. 17 THE COURT: That motion is denied. Proceed. 18 BY MS. MARSHALL: 19 Q Mr. Destefano, you claim that your reputation 20 was impacted as a result of the allegations contained in 21 your complaint, correct, in this lawsuit? 22 A That you accused me of sexually molesting my 23 mother, yes, that's correct. 24 Q Now, sir, you understand I haven't accused you 25 of anything, correct? 2073 1 A Of course not, not you personally, per se, 2 ma'am. I understand that. No, you have never accused me 3 of molesting my mother. 4 Q And you claim -- 5 A But the people you represent have. 6 Q You claim that your reputation has been 7 impacted as a result of the allegations in this lawsuit, 8 correct? 9 A As anyone would, yes, correct. 10 Q And you have identified people in both your 11 interrogatories and your deposition, people who know how 12 your reputation has been impacted, correct? 13 A Point me to it and let's -- 14 Q Page 588. 15 A On the second, first? 16 Q I think that would be the fourth. 17 A The fourth set of interrogatories? 18 Q It's 588 of your deposition. Actually, the 19 pages are missing from those interrogatories where they 20 should be, but it's page 588. Look at the deposition, 21 please. 22 A Volume 4, 588. 23 Q Correct. 24 A Line? 25 Q 17 to 21. 2074 1 A "And you have asserted in your answers to 2 interrogatories that the people listed in No. 6 are those 3 people who have knowledge of your reputation has been 4 impacted, correct? Correct." That's what I said. 5 Q And I'm going to identify the people -- 6 A In the interrogatories? 7 Q Yes. 8 A So go to the interrogatory? 9 Q The answers aren't there. The pages are 10 missing for some reason. 11 A Okay. So are you going to list -- I'm sorry. 12 Q I think they were identified and talked about 13 in your deposition. 14 A Okay. 15 Q Mieko -- am I pronouncing that right or is it 16 Mieko? 17 A Think of yourself, me, and your own echo. 18 Q Mieko Koller, correct? 19 A Correct. 20 Q You've listed her. 21 A As people who know that my reputation have 22 been damaged? 23 Q Correct. They were people that you have 24 identified as having knowledge about your reputation 25 in -- before the allegations and after the allegations, 2075 1 correct? 2 A Correct. 3 Q And Mieko Koller, she was one of the people 4 that you identified, correct? 5 A I mean, if it's in the interrogatory, yes, 6 that would be -- is it in here in Volume 4? Does it say 7 Mieko Koller? 8 Q Page 589 on -- 9 A No. If it says that, that would be correct. 10 Q And isn't it true that she learned about the 11 allegations from you? 12 A When she saw me sitting in the corner shaking 13 and crying, yes. 14 Q You told her about what was contained in 15 the -- 16 A When she was asking me what was wrong, yes. 17 Q -- the medical records of Sunbelt and Florida 18 Hospital, correct? 19 A Correct, yes. 20 Q And ORMC? 21 A Correct. 22 Q And you don't believe that she believes the 23 allegations, correct? 24 A I know she doesn't believe the allegations. 25 Q And you still have a very good relationship 2076 1 with her, correct? 2 A Wonderful relationship, yes. 3 Q Mark Koller. 4 A Yes. 5 Q He was another person that you identified? 6 A Yes. Doesn't believe, wonderful relationship. 7 They don't believe it. 8 Q And they heard about -- 9 A Through me, yes. 10 Q -- all the incidences through you, correct? 11 A Yes, absolutely. 12 Q And Jim and Sylvia Davis, they heard about 13 everything from you? 14 A Same thing, same circumstances, yes, correct. 15 Q They heard about the allegations from you. 16 They don't believe them. And it hasn't -- 17 A Absolutely. 18 Q -- changed their opinion of you? 19 A Correct. 20 Q Phil and Shirley Massey, they also heard the 21 allegations about you? 22 A Same thing, yes. 23 Q From you? 24 A Yes, yes. 25 Q They don't believe them? 2077 1 A Don't believe them, no. 2 Q And it hasn't changed your relationship with 3 them in any way? 4 A Maybe -- I'm sorry. Maybe his wife, maybe his 5 wife views me differently. 6 Q They don't believe the allegations, correct? 7 A I think his wife maybe views me a little 8 differently. 9 Q Page 591, lines 2 to 4. 10 A Uh-huh. 11 Q Can you look at that and tell me what your 12 answer was to the question of whether they believe the 13 allegations raised -- whether they believe the 14 allegations raised in the complaint? 15 A I'm telling you now I believe she views me a 16 little differently. If I said something different back 17 then, I won't dispute that. 18 Q And Marla DeWitt? 19 A Yes. 20 Q She heard about all of the allegations from 21 you, correct? 22 A Correct. 23 Q And she doesn't believe the allegations, 24 correct? 25 A Correct. 2078 1 Q And BethAnn Walker, she also heard about the 2 allegations from you? 3 A Correct. 4 Q And she doesn't believe them, correct? 5 A I'm not so sure. 6 Q Page 594, line 6 through 10. 7 "Question: Have you talked to her long enough 8 to know whether or not she believes the alleged 9 defamatory remarks? 10 "Answer: No, she doesn't. I don't think she 11 believes them." 12 What about -- Susan Hernandez is another 13 person that you have identified having knowledge about 14 your reputation, correct? 15 A The mother of my child? 16 Q Correct. 17 A Correct. 18 Q And she learned about the allegations from 19 you, correct? 20 A Yes, that would be correct. 21 Q And she doesn't believe them, does she? 22 A No. 23 Q And Michael Louder, he's the brother-in-law of 24 Ms. McNeill, correct? 25 A Correct, Ms. Marshall. If you'll just take 2079 1 all the names, I'll agree to it and say correct. 2 Q I'll ask the questions the way that I want to. 3 A Sorry. 4 Q I appreciate your help, though. 5 A No problem. 6 Q Did he hear any of the alleged defamatory 7 remarks from any source other than yourself? 8 A Who are we speaking of? 9 Q Michael Louder. He heard the defamatory -- 10 the alleged defamatory remarks from you, correct? 11 A Yeah. He wanted to know what was going on. 12 Q And he doesn't believe them, does he? 13 A No. 14 Q And Tommy Mayer? 15 A Doesn't believe them. 16 Q And he heard them all from you, correct? 17 A Yes. 18 Q And then there were two people that you listed 19 having knowledge of your reputation but they hadn't heard 20 anything about the allegations, and that was Conrad and 21 Betty Dulmah? 22 A Dulmah. 23 Q Dulmah. Is that correct? 24 A Uh-huh. 25 Q And Juan Perez? 2080 1 A I don't know who Juan Perez is. 2 Q He was a gardener at your mother's house in 3 Arizona. 4 A Oh, right, right. 5 Q He doesn't know anything about the 6 allegations, correct? 7 A No, correct. 8 Q You've also claimed as part of your damages in 9 this case that you have suffered from sexual impotence, 10 correct? 11 A That's correct. 12 Q And you claim that the sexual impotence began 13 immediately after the allegations, correct? 14 A I'm saying I have an aversion to everything I 15 thought that was beautiful prior to your allegations, 16 right. I'm saying that I -- how personal do you want to 17 get, ma'am? 18 Q Well, my question was whether or not you claim 19 that the sexual impotency began immediately after the 20 allegations? 21 A I'm claiming that immediately after the 22 allegations, I have not had any sexual intercourse with 23 any women. I don't even want to think about it. I don't 24 even want to talk about it, and I see no -- right. 25 That's it. 2081 1 Q And you haven't reported this problem to any 2 physician, have you? 3 A I don't go to physicians. I don't go to 4 hospitals. 5 Q So the answer would be no? 6 A That's correct. 7 Q And you also haven't reported your sexual 8 impotence to any healthcare provider of any type of 9 background, whether it's psychiatrist, psychologist or 10 urologist, correct? 11 A The only healthcare providers in this town are 12 Florida Hospital and ORMC, and I don't even want to go 13 near you people let alone get checked out by you guys. 14 Q Okay. Mr. Destefano, you have seen Dr. Krop 15 in Gainesville, correct? 16 A That's correct. 17 Q He's a psychologist that has evaluated you for 18 the purpose of this lawsuit, correct? 19 A That's correct. 20 Q And he's going to be testifying regarding your 21 psychological damages, correct? 22 A I don't know. You're getting into legal 23 stuff. I don't know what's going to be happening or 24 what's going to be testified to. I'm just -- 25 Q Well, you had an interview with Mr. Krop and 2082 1 with his assistant, Roseann Rutledge, correct? 2 A I had an interview with a doctor and an 3 assistant. I don't know her name. 4 Q And didn't you report to his assistant that 5 your sex life was active and gratifying? 6 A That's not correct. Are we talking pre or 7 post defamation? 8 Q Mr. Destefano, you were evaluated by Dr. Krop 9 and interviewed by his assistant on August 5th, 2004, 10 correct? 11 A August 5th? 12 Q August 26th, 2004. 13 A Yes. 14 Q And if you turn to the fifth page, the first 15 full sentence. 16 A You want me to read it? 17 Q Sure. 18 A The fifth page? 19 Q It is the fifth page above "Medical," the 20 first full sentence. 21 A Yes. "Mr. Destefano relates that "Since the 22 initial allegations in this case, he" -- 23 Q No, I'm sorry, above that. The paragraph 24 above that, first full sentence starting with "He 25 describes his sexual interludes." 2083 1 A "He describes his sexual interludes with his 2 significant others as active and gratifying." 3 Q Keep going. 4 A "He denies ever experiencing any sexual 5 dysfunctions or other sexually related problems." 6 Q Thank you. 7 A But what point are we referring this to, 8 before or after the allegations? 9 Q Well, you saw Dr. Krop and were interviewed by 10 Ms. Rutledge after the allegations, correct? 11 A Yeah, but she could have been asking me -- I 12 think she was asking me what was my sex life before. I 13 mean, is there anywhere here where it says that I'm 14 saying I was gratified after your allegations? I'm 15 sorry. Is that for my attorneys? 16 Q You also didn't report to Dr. Krop that you 17 had any problems with sexual impotency, did you? 18 A That's not -- I'm sorry. Repeat that 19 question. 20 Q You did not report to Dr. Krop, the 21 psychologist who examined you for the purpose of this 22 lawsuit, any problems with sexual impotency? 23 A I spent many hours with him, and I'm pretty 24 sure I told him that I don't have any sexual relations 25 with anyone, no women after this. And there's no women 2084 1 that will come forward and say that I've had sexual 2 relations with them because I don't, and that's the 3 truth. 4 Q Now, before the allegations, you claim that 5 you never had any problems with sexual impotency, 6 correct? 7 A That's correct. 8 Q And before this lawsuit, you were married to 9 Mieko Koller, right? 10 A If you think of yourself, me, and your own 11 echo, Mieko. 12 Q Mieko Koller, correct? 13 A Correct. 14 Q And you were married -- you married her when 15 you were 21 years old? 16 A That's correct. 17 Q And so if you were born in 1960, you would 18 have married her in approximately 1981? 19 A Yeah, I'll take your word for it, ma'am. 20 Q And you came to Orlando in 1997, correct? 21 A If that's what I said in the depo or 22 somewhere, I wouldn't disagree with that. 23 Q And you got divorced approximately one or two 24 years after you came to Orlando, correct? 25 A Yeah. I mean, I'm actually getting tired now 2085 1 so I'm not going to dispute anything. If I said it 2 somewhere or you can find it, I'll agree with it. 3 Q So that would mean that you got divorced in 4 approximately 1998? 5 A Got divorced in '98? Yeah. I mean, the 6 divorce papers, I'm sure we have them somewhere, yeah. 7 Q So you were married between 16 or 17 years? 8 A Yes. 9 Q And isn't it true that when you were married 10 to Mieko, you had a healthy sex life? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And you claim that when you were married to 13 Mieko, you weren't having sex with anybody else, correct? 14 A That's correct. 15 Q And you claim that you had to separate your 16 lust from reality, correct? 17 A I had to separate my lust from reality? 18 Q Correct. Page 117 of your September 20th, 19 2004, deposition. 20 A Volume? 21 Q It's the one that's not a volume. It's -- 22 A The one that was terminated? 23 Q September 20th. No, the other smaller one 24 that was after that. 25 A Volume 2. 2086 1 Q That's on page 117, line 23. 2 A (Reviewing transcript.) Okay. I see the 3 context. So when I was married -- you're asking when I 4 was married to Mieko, I didn't -- I only had sexual 5 relations with her. And then you asked if I had sex with 6 anyone outside of the marriage. Then I said sex with 7 anybody outside the marriage? Yes. No, I didn't have 8 sex outside the marriage. I had -- I separated my lust 9 from reality. 10 Q "I had to separate my lust from reality," 11 correct? 12 A Yeah, yeah. If you could explain to me what I 13 meant by that, I'd be happy -- 14 Q That was your testimony. 15 A -- yeah. 16 Q In fact, Mr. Destefano, you have a son named 17 Shawn Hernandez? 18 A That's correct. 19 Q And Shawn is approximately nine years old, 20 correct? 21 A Correct. 22 Q And so he was born approximately in 1996, 23 correct? 24 A Okay, Ms. Marshall, correct. 25 Q And you were divorced in 1998, correct? 2087 1 A I was divorced in '98, correct. 2 Q And his mother isn't Mieko Koller, is it? 3 A No, it's not. 4 Q His mother is Susan Hernandez, correct? 5 A Correct. 6 Q So he was born before you and Mieko were 7 divorced, correct? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q And so you were, in fact, having sex outside 10 of the marriage, were you not? 11 A No, no, I -- okay. Now, we're talking 12 technical. Yeah, technically, I guess I was. 13 Q In fact, you went to Arizona to visit your mom 14 in approximately 1995 or 1996, correct? 15 A Correct. 16 Q And you went out there visiting with your 17 girlfriend, correct? 18 A Correct. 19 Q Is that right? 20 A That's correct. 21 Q Was that Angela Rapper? 22 A Raper. 23 Q Raper, I'm sorry. Correct? 24 A Correct. 25 Q So you went to Arizona to visit your mom with 2088 1 your girlfriend Angela at the time that you were still 2 married to Mieko, correct? 3 A Correct. 4 MR. OSBORNE: I'm going to object to this line 5 of questioning. I think it's not relevant to 6 anything. 7 THE COURT: Do you have a problem? 8 THE WITNESS: I just need to push my back 9 against the wall. It relieves it if I can just push 10 it up against the wall. 11 THE COURT: We have about nine minutes to 12 go -- 13 THE WITNESS: I'm in a lot of pain, Your 14 Honor, if I could just push up against the wall for 15 one second. 16 THE COURT: I'm sorry, Mr. Destefano, just 17 hang in there. Overruled. Just wrap this up. How 18 much longer do you have, Ms. Marshall? 19 MS. MARSHALL: I'm almost done with this line, 20 but I still have probably a half an hour, 45 21 minutes. 22 THE COURT: All right. Well, this may be an 23 appropriate time, then, to stop. How many more 24 questions do you have before you get to a stopping 25 point? 2089 1 MS. MARSHALL: Just a few. 2 THE COURT: Wrap this up, then, and we'll go 3 and that will relieve Mr. Destefano. 4 MS. MARSHALL: Okay. 5 BY MS. MARSHALL: 6 Q And, Mr. Destefano, you live part-time with 7 Kay McNeill and part-time with your ex-wife and her 8 husband, the Kollers, correct? 9 A Two lovely individuals, plus a husband, yes. 10 Q And you've told many people that Mieko 11 Koller's your sister, correct? 12 A Yes, she is. 13 Q Well, she's not your sister, is she? 14 A She's my sister. 15 Q She's your ex-wife, isn't that true? 16 A And she's my sister. Do you get it, ma'am? 17 Do you understand what I'm saying? She's family. 18 MS. MARSHALL: Do you want me to move on or -- 19 THE COURT: Are you at the conclusion of a 20 line of questioning? 21 MS. MARSHALL: I am, Your Honor. 22 THE COURT: Why don't we call it a night, 23 then. Mr. Destefano, you may be excused. 24 Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, let's 25 reconvene tomorrow morning at -- I'd like for you to 2090 1 be here at 8:30. I will come in as quickly as I can 2 after that to begin the proceedings tomorrow. 3 THE COURT DEPUTY: All rise for the jury. 4 (Jury exits.) 5 THE COURT: Okay. Ms. Marshall, you think you 6 have 30, 45 minutes left? 7 MS. MARSHALL: Yes, Your Honor. 8 THE COURT: And when are you -- 9 MR. TOWNSEND: I will be very short, Your 10 Honor. 11 THE COURT: 15, 20 minutes? 12 MR. TOWNSEND: At most, maybe not even that. 13 THE COURT: So then just guess for me what 14 your redirect's going to be. 15 MR. OSBORNE: 30 minutes. 16 THE COURT: 30 minutes of redirect. I guess I 17 would ask you, Ms. Marshall, to try to truncate 18 your -- just take a look at how we can speed this 19 up, if at all possible. I'd like to get him on and 20 off in an hour tomorrow. If we can't do it, we 21 can't do it, just do the best we can. And then you 22 have your other before and afters and then Dr. Krop; 23 is that right? 24 MR. OSBORNE: That's correct, Judge. 25 THE COURT: There you are. 2091 1 MR. OSBORNE: I just move around on you. 2 THE COURT: So we may not finish your case 3 tomorrow morning. It may be more like early, 4 midafternoon. 5 MR. OSBORNE: I think that we said that 6 Dr. Krop's 2 hours and 37 minutes. 7 THE COURT: Okay. And you think Mr. Massey 8 and is it Ms. Koller or Mr. Koller? 9 MR. OSBORNE: Mrs. Koller, Mieko Koller. 10 THE COURT: The two of them will be roughly an 11 hour each. 12 MR. OSBORNE: Less than that, Judge. 13 THE COURT: An hour total. Are you going to 14 be -- I'm just wondering what I should tell the 15 defense in terms of our timing because there is 16 going to be a number of directed verdict motions. 17 Will everyone, please, except the lawyers be seated, 18 please. 19 There are going to be a number of directed 20 verdict motions that are going to clearly take some 21 time. Your witnesses are all live? 22 MS. MARSHALL: That's correct, Your Honor, and 23 then we have -- we have video, the picketing video. 24 THE COURT: Can you do your witnesses in a 25 day, do you think? 2092 1 MS. MARSHALL: I believe so, Your Honor. 2 THE COURT: So worst-case scenario, if we 3 couldn't -- if the plaintiff rested, directed 4 verdicts -- worst-case scenario, from your 5 perspective, plaintiff rests, directed verdicts, and 6 that brings us to the end of the day. You think you 7 may be able to put your case on on Thursday? 8 MS. MARSHALL: Correct. 9 THE COURT: Which would leave closing 10 arguments Friday morning and deliberations Friday 11 afternoon. 12 MR. TOWNSEND: We need a charge conference, 13 Your Honor. 14 THE COURT: I'm thinking the charge conference 15 we may, if I can feel pretty confident that the 16 defense can put their case on in a day, I'm thinking 17 the charge conference can, to the extent necessary, 18 come behind the directed verdict motions tomorrow, 19 and so I could release the jury when plaintiff rests 20 for the rest of the day and then to come back the 21 following day. 22 MR. TOWNSEND: (Nods head.) 23 THE COURT: I've looked at the jury 24 instructions, and frankly, I'm wondering -- I'm not 25 sure it's going to take all that long. Some of this 2093 1 may be resolved on directed verdict, and that may 2 make the charge conference even less thorny. But I 3 don't think it looks that bad, jury instructions, I 4 really don't. Even as they stand now, it doesn't 5 look that bad. 6 So what are you planning on doing with your 7 witnesses tomorrow, Ms. Marshall? Have you got 8 everybody queued up to start or are they on call? 9 MS. MARSHALL: They're on call. I could fill 10 the afternoon if you want us to start on our case, 11 but if you would rather hear directed verdicts after 12 the close of the plaintiff's case, we can be ready 13 to do that and just have our witnesses on Thursday. 14 THE COURT: Well, that's the way that I 15 envisioned it is I would hear directed verdict 16 motions at the outset. They may be raised again at 17 the conclusion of all the evidence, but I would hear 18 directed verdicts. I'm just wondering if I -- how 19 long -- okay. 20 Well, I'll think about whether we want to ask 21 the jury to hang around for some time or whether 22 we're going to excuse them for the balance of the 23 day tomorrow after the plaintiff rests and just try 24 to push through all of the defense case on Thursday. 25 You be thinking about it too and what makes sense in 2094 1 terms of the presentation of your case. 2 If you had to, are you going to play the video 3 last? Is that how you envisioned your case going? 4 MS. MARSHALL: Probably first. 5 THE COURT: Picketing video? 6 MS. MARSHALL: Correct. 7 THE COURT: So -- okay. 8 MR. EVANS: How long is that? 9 THE COURT: You're still of the mind, Larry, 10 that you're not going to call any witnesses? 11 MR. TOWNSEND: Yes, ma'am. I think I've got 12 everything covered in what everybody else put on. I 13 don't anticipate needing anybody else. 14 MS. MARSHALL: There are two videos. One is 15 an edited version of the disorderly conduct and the 16 other one is the picketing video. 17 THE COURT: That's been stipulated in. There 18 is no argument about that. 19 MR. OSBORNE: I don't think we've seen them as 20 edited, depending on when they've been edited. 21 MS. MARSHALL: They were at our office when we 22 met three weeks ago. 23 MR. OSBORNE: Okay. I just didn't -- okay. 24 THE COURT: How long are these, Ms. Marshall? 25 MS. MARSHALL: I'm going to say one's 15 2095 1 minutes and one is like seven or eight. Maybe 20 2 and seven and eight. I think totally they're only 3 like half an hour long. 4 THE COURT: What if the plaintiff rests 5 tomorrow and you just, for purposes of preserving 6 the record, you make your motions very briefly, and 7 I ask you then to argue your motions and show -- 8 show the videos, and then we'll excuse the jury at 9 that point, and then I'll hear your motion in full. 10 That will at least get us further down the line on 11 the defense case, and it won't waste any time, and I 12 can still devote the later afternoon to the legal 13 matters. 14 MS. MARSHALL: (Nods head.) 15 THE COURT: Do you have any problem doing it 16 that way? 17 MS. MARSHALL: I have no objection with that. 18 I think that's a good way to go. 19 MR. OSBORNE: I have no objection. 20 THE COURT: That would be kind of efficient. 21 That would also give you the opportunity to waive 22 off your witnesses for tomorrow. And say again, I'm 23 sorry, how long the video is? 24 MS. MARSHALL: I think totally the two of them 25 are half an hour. 2096 1 MS. DAHLMAN: 23 minutes. 2 MS. MARSHALL: What's the other one? 3 MS. DAHLMAN: Both of them. 4 MS. MARSHALL: 23 minutes together. 5 THE COURT: They're not very long at all then. 6 We'll probably do that then. Take a break, you can 7 say that you have a motion for directed verdict and 8 then I'll make a statement on the record and say 9 I'll hear that after the playing of the video, play 10 the video. At that time, I could send the jury home 11 and hear the motions and do the charge conference. 12 Okay? 13 All right. We may get through this thing yet. 14 Anything else before we adjourn for the evening? 15 MR. OSBORNE: Nothing, Your Honor. 16 THE COURT: Anything from the defense? 17 MR. TOWNSEND: No, ma'am. 18 MS. MARSHALL: No, Your Honor. 19 THE COURT: All right. The Court is then in 20 recess. 21 MR. OSBORNE: Until what time, Judge, 8:30? 22 THE COURT: 8:30. I'll be having ex-parte at 23 8:30, but if it's anything like this morning -- 24 (Off-the-record discussion was had.) 25 (The proceedings were adjourned at 6:00 p.m.) 2097 1 N E X T D A Y S E S S I O N 2 (Wednesday, October 26, 2005) (8:48 a.m.) 3 (Appearances same as heretofore noted previously:) 4 THE COURT: Good morning. Please be seated. 5 Ms. Marshall, are you prepared to resume your 6 cross-examination? 7 MS. MARSHALL: Yes, Your Honor. 8 THE COURT: Mr. Osborne, is there anything you 9 need to address? 10 MR. OSBORNE: There is one thing, Judge, 11 before the jury comes in. 12 THE COURT: Yes. 13 MR. OSBORNE: In terms of the edited videotape 14 of Mr. Destefano picketing, the only thing that's 15 listed in the pretrial stip are all the videotapes. 16 I was not aware there had been an editing done until 17 yesterday. If I had been aware, I would like to 18 have cross-designations so I would know what else 19 was in there. Yes, I did go to the office and they 20 were in the box, but no one told me they were 21 edited. All it had on the pretrial was videotape of 22 Larry Destefano picketing. 23 I'm confident those are going to be edited to 24 the most prejudicial degree they could be, and I 25 would like to have had the opportunity to 2098 1 cross-designate and present my own tape and put in 2 good things. 3 THE COURT: What is that? Was that by way of 4 objection? 5 MR. OSBORNE: That is an objection to what I 6 learned yesterday was going to go into evidence for 7 them, a 23-minute edited version. And there are, I 8 think, several hours of these videotapes that were 9 provided by Mr. Destefano, and they've been edited 10 down to 23 minutes. 11 THE COURT: But you had the opportunity, had 12 you chosen to, to create your own video because you 13 had access to all of the videotapes, didn't you? 14 MR. OSBORNE: Your Honor, and I probably would 15 have had I known they were editing them down. I 16 thought they were going to play all of them. 17 MS. MARSHALL: The reason that it's even 18 admissible at all is because it's being offered by 19 us against them. It would be a hearsay statement if 20 it was being offered by them. I don't know that 21 they have any ability to offer in their own 22 out-of-court statements of Mr. Destefano. 23 In the pretrial, the joint pretrial statement 24 where we did list all of the videos, the only 25 objection that was noted was as to relevancy. And 2099 1 they've been available to be viewed, you know, for 2 Mr. Osborne. They were at our office several weeks 3 ago. 11:00 last night when it was mentioned -- 4 THE COURT: But you didn't designate on the 5 pretrial statement that these -- that you have an 6 edited version of this; is that right? You just 7 listed the videotape? 8 MS. MARSHALL: That is correct. 9 THE COURT: So what you're saying is had he 10 wanted to, quote, cross-designate, that would have 11 been objectionable on hearsay grounds? 12 MS. MARSHALL: Well, it depends what he wanted 13 to put in there. 14 THE COURT: I don't know. I'll think about 15 this. I'm not going to rule on it now. I'd like to 16 go ahead and get started. 17 MR. OSBORNE: That's fine, Your Honor. 18 THE COURT: Are you ready? 19 MS. MARSHALL: Yes, Your Honor. 20 THE COURT: Ready, Mr. Townsend? 21 MR. TOWNSEND: Yes, ma'am. 22 THE COURT: Mr. Destefano, why don't you take 23 the stand. 24 THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honor. 25 THE COURT: You all think we can give the jury 2100 1 an hour lunch today or do you want to press it and 2 bring lunch in for them? Have you all talked about 3 that? 4 MR. OSBORNE: I'm fine giving them an hour, 5 Judge. 6 MR. TOWNSEND: I think an hour is fine. 7 THE COURT: You think we can let them go 8 instead of keeping them caged in here today? 9 MS. MARSHALL: Yes, I think so, Your Honor. 10 MR. OSBORNE: I'd like to get out of my cage 11 too, Judge. 12 THE COURT: I can certainly sympathize with 13 you. Let's give them an hour today, and we'll press 14 ahead and see if we can get done. 15 (Jury enters.) 16 THE COURT: Be seated. Good morning, ladies 17 and gentlemen. 18 THE JURORS: Good morning. 19 THE COURT: As you will recall, we broke 20 yesterday evening in the middle of the 21 cross-examination of the plaintiff by Ms. Marshall, 22 and we will resume the trial at that point this 23 morning. Go ahead, Ms. Marshall. 24 MS. MARSHALL: Thank you, Your Honor. 25 - - - - - 2101 1 CROSS-EXAMINATION (cont'd) 2 BY MS. MARSHALL: 3 Q Mr. Destefano, you've worked from 1995 through 4 the present, correct? 5 A That would be correct. 6 Q And you have received income in each of those 7 years, have you not? 8 A Yes, I have. 9 Q And in each of those years, you've received 10 money under the table that you did not declare to the 11 United States Internal Revenue Service, correct? 12 A Correct. 13 Q And for most of your life, you've received 14 money under the table that you didn't declare to the 15 United States Internal Revenue Service, correct? 16 A Correct. 17 Q And "under the table" means accepting cash 18 where there's no record accounting of the money that 19 you've received as income, correct? 20 A Correct. 21 Q And in 1995, you earned anywhere between 10- 22 and 15,000 dollars, correct? 23 A Correct. 24 Q And in 1996, you earned anywhere between 10- 25 to 15,000 dollars, correct? 2102 1 A That would be correct. 2 Q And the same in 1997, correct? 3 A That would be correct. 4 Q And the same in 1998? 5 A That would be correct. 6 Q And the same in 1999? 7 A That would be correct. 8 Q And isn't it true that you would get W-2 forms 9 from your employers and you would throw them away? 10 A Is that what I said in my depo? 11 Q We can get that out. Page 209, if I may 12 approach the witness. 13 THE COURT: Yes, ma'am. 14 A If I said it in my depo, that would be 15 correct. 16 Q And, in fact, you've never filed any income 17 tax returns, correct? 18 A I think I recall filing income tax returns. 19 Q Page 209. 20 A Volume? 21 Q That would be Volume 2. No, Volume 1. 22 A Page 209? 23 Q 209. 24 A Line? 25 Q Line 24: "Question: You never filed income 2103 1 tax returns" -- 2 A "I never filed." 3 Q "Answer: I never filed." 4 A But I recall -- I recall filing income tax 5 returns. I think after the -- I mean, I think at that 6 time, I just felt like I just -- those answers, I just 7 wanted to get to the meat of the case, and I was just 8 giving you answers you want to satisfy you, but I do 9 remember filing income tax returns. Did I file them 10 often? I don't think so. 11 Q Well, Mr. Destefano, you were under oath on 12 your deposition, correct? 13 A Correct, yes. 14 Q So what you're saying is you were just 15 choosing which questions to answer, the ones that you 16 thought were important? 17 A No. What I felt was important was the meat of 18 this case, and I just wanted to get to it, but, okay, I 19 didn't file income tax returns. 20 Q Okay. And would you agree with me that you 21 haven't been very honest with Uncle Sam, have you? 22 A No, I haven't. 23 Q And are you aware that it's against the law to 24 take money under the table and fail to report it as 25 income? 2104 1 A Yes. 2 Q Now, you went out to Arizona in January of 3 1999, correct? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q And at that time, your mother had been 6 committed to a state psychiatric facility, correct? 7 A That's correct. 8 Q And she was discharged into your care on 9 January 21st, correct? 10 A That's correct. 11 Q And she had already been diagnosed with 12 dementia and was still very confused, was she not? 13 A Yes, she was. 14 Q And within ten days after you taking custody 15 of your mother out of the state mental institution, she 16 signed a last will and testament, correct? 17 A That's correct. 18 Q And when you left Arizona, you sold her house? 19 A That's correct. 20 Q And it was sold for somewhere between 130- and 21 170,000 dollars, correct? 22 A I don't recall, but that would be correct if 23 it's in the deposition. 24 Q Do you want to look? It's page 17 of the 25 September 20th. 2105 1 A I don't need to look. That's fine. 2 Q Okay. And you also sold her car? 3 A Correct. 4 Q And you sold her furniture? 5 A Correct. 6 Q And all that was put into her Merrill Lynch 7 account, correct? 8 A BankOne, Merrill Lynch. I don't -- correct. 9 Q One of her bank accounts, correct? 10 A Correct. 11 Q And there was somewhere between 150- and 12 250,000 dollars in her Merrill Lynch account when she 13 died, correct? 14 A Correct. 15 Q And when she died, your name ended up on that 16 account, correct? 17 A I was the estate -- whatever the estate 18 document said. I was her executor. 19 THE COURT: Counsel, approach the bench. 20 (Bench conference.) 21 THE COURT: That's not a witness, is it, in 22 the back that just walked in? I don't want to have 23 another sequestration motion. 24 MR. OSBORNE: No. 25 THE COURT: Excuse me. 2106 1 (Open court.) 2 BY MS. MARSHALL: 3 Q So you ended up as the executor or trustee of 4 her estate? 5 A I was in charge of everything my mother owned, 6 everything she had, yes. 7 Q And you knew that that money was for you and 8 your brother, correct? 9 A That is correct. 10 Q And you sent your brother approximately 15- to 11 30,000 dollars, correct? 12 A I gave it to him when he did appear here when 13 it was brought back. Whenever he needed money, that's 14 correct. 15 Q You sent him approximately 15- to 30,000 16 dollars, correct? 17 A If not more. Whenever he needed money, he had 18 the money. 19 Q You want to turn to page 23 of your September 20 20th deposition? 21 A If it said I gave him between 15- and 30,000 22 dollars, that would be correct. 23 Q And you used some of the inheritance money to 24 buy a truck for yourself, correct? 25 A I bought a truck, yes. 2107 1 Q And that truck cost more than what you gave 2 your brother, didn't it? 3 A I gave my brother between -- I think I 4 testified between 15- and 30,000 dollars, if not more; 5 but, yes, the truck cost more than I gave my brother, 6 yes. 7 Q You also used some of you and your brother's 8 inheritance to pay your bills, your rent, your gas and 9 your food, correct? 10 A Most of that money went to financing the 11 picketing and the fliers I had passed out and not 12 watching the account while I stood out in front of your 13 hospital for a year. 14 Q And the rest of the money was just lost in the 15 stock market, correct? 16 A The rest of the money was lost because I 17 didn't even care about the money. All I cared about was 18 standing in front of your hospital making sure people 19 knew what you had done to me. 20 Q And the reason your brother just got 15- or 21 20,000 and you took more than 33,000 was that your 22 brother just wasn't around, correct? 23 A No. The reason I paid 30,000 dollars for my 24 truck was because I was going to be with my mother and I 25 was going to start the business up again. I bought a 2108 1 trailer and we were all living together, and I was going 2 to start making money again to go back into business. 3 Q And you bought your truck in January after 4 your mother died, correct? 5 A No. I ordered my truck about seven months 6 before my mother died, and it arrived late. They were 7 late making the truck, and my mother passed away. I 8 didn't expect my mother to pass away. 9 Q Page 23, line 23 of your September 20th 10 deposition. 11 "Question: And how much did you get out of 12 that account to pay for your bills? 13 "Answer: In January, I bought a truck which 14 was 33,000 dollars, and the rest was just lost in 15 the market or just simple bills paid. My -- my 16 rent, gas, food. 17 "Question: Why did your brother only get 15- 18 or 20,000 and you took more than 33,000? 19 "Answer: My brother wasn't around." 20 Now, isn't it true that your brother lived 21 with your mother from the day he was born till just a few 22 weeks prior to you getting out to Arizona? 23 A My brother lived with my -- he was -- my 24 brother was schizophrenic, and my mother took care of 25 him. My brother would hop on flights. He'd fly the 2109 1 country. He'd wind up in mental hospitals in Amsterdam, 2 Holland, all around the world. They would bring him 3 back. 4 He was put back on his medication. He would 5 live with his mother. He would go off his medication and 6 wind back up on the street again. But for the most part, 7 yes, my mother took care of him when he was stabilized 8 and he was brought home. 9 Q Your brother lived with your mother from the 10 day he was born up until about two weeks before you got 11 out to Arizona, correct? 12 A I'm -- I don't -- I wouldn't know that. I 13 mean, I wasn't out in Arizona. 14 Q Okay. Page 35 of your September 20th, 2004, 15 deposition. 16 Question, line 20: "Did your brother go see 17 your mother? 18 "Answer: My brother was living there. 19 "Question: Your brother was living there at 20 that time? 21 "Answer: My brother always lived with my mom, 22 yeah. 23 "Question: From when until when? 24 "Answer: From the day he was born till I 25 think a few weeks prior to me getting out there. 2110 1 Witnesses had told me they saw my brother there." 2 MR. OSBORNE: Your Honor, I'm going to object. 3 That did call for hearsay, and that's what he said, 4 he wouldn't know. I think that's an improper 5 impeachment. 6 THE COURT: Overruled. 7 BY MS. MARSHALL: 8 Q Mr. Destefano, the truck that you bought in 9 January, does that have a vanity plate on it? 10 A Yes, it does. 11 Q Does it say "Thanks, Mom"? 12 A Right on the front, it says, "Thanks, Mom." 13 Would you like me to explain that? 14 Q We talked about this yesterday, Mr. Destefano. 15 You'll get a chance to do all the explaining you want 16 when your counsel -- 17 A That's fine. 18 Q -- questions you. 19 A I just thought maybe you'd like me to explain 20 it now. 21 Q When you were picketing out in front of 22 Florida Hospital and Sunbelt, you didn't do any work for 23 money, correct? 24 A When I stood out in front of your facility? 25 Q You weren't working at the time. 2111 1 A No. I was standing out in front of your 2 facility. 3 Q And didn't you tell people that you didn't 4 have to work because you were rich? 5 A No, I did not. Uhm, yes, I think I had 6 mentioned that, I think, when your executives would come 7 by, yes. I'd tell them, don't worry. I've got plenty of 8 money. I could stay out here for as long as I want. 9 Q Now, Sunbelt nursing home and Florida Hospital 10 aren't the first businesses that you've picketed, are 11 they? 12 A No. It was Cycle Sports Center, a motorcycle. 13 Q And that was around June of 1996, correct? 14 A That's correct. 15 Q And as a result of that picketing, they gave 16 you a new motorcycle, correct? 17 A That's correct. They didn't give it to me. 18 That was my motorcycle. 19 Q Well, they gave you a replacement motorcycle? 20 A They replaced my motorcycle that they refused 21 to fix. 22 Q Did they tell you that repairs weren't covered 23 under the warranty? 24 A No. They told me the repairs were covered 25 under the warranty. They were sick and tired of 2112 1 repairing my bike, and if I didn't like it, go sue them. 2 I don't go suing them. I take care of business on my 3 own, and I went out there, and I stood out there, and I 4 hurt them just like they hurt me. 5 Q And you were also trespassed from Cycle Sports 6 Center, correct? 7 A No, that's incorrect. 8 Q Mr. Destefano, isn't it true that on June 9 29th, 1996, you were trespassed from Cycle Sports Center? 10 A No, it's not true. 11 MS. MARSHALL: I'd like to have this marked as 12 our next exhibit. 13 A Is my signature on here? Does it show that I 14 signed this trespass? I mean, if you could show me my 15 signature, then I would see that I was trespassed, if you 16 can find my signature on this document. 17 Q Were you given a trespass warning, 18 Mr. Destefano? 19 A This is the first time I've ever seen this. I 20 mean, if I had signed it anywhere, then I would see that 21 I was trespassed. 22 MS. MARSHALL: I'd like to have this marked as 23 the defendants' next exhibit, please. 24 MR. OSBORNE: Object, hearsay. 25 THE COURT: Are you moving this in or are you 2113 1 asking it to be marked for identification? 2 MS. MARSHALL: I'm asking it to be marked -- 3 moved into evidence. 4 MR. OSBORNE: Hearsay. 5 MS. MARSHALL: It's a police report. It's an 6 exception to the hearsay rule, the same as the other 7 police reports that we put into evidence and the 8 trespass documents that have been put into evidence. 9 THE COURT: Approach the bench. 10 (Bench conference.) 11 THE COURT: A police report is an exception of 12 the hearsay rule because it's a public record? 13 MS. MARSHALL: That's correct, except in a 14 criminal case. 15 THE COURT: I've never seen a police report 16 come in without being authenticated and foundation 17 laid by the police officer. 18 MS. MARSHALL: They haven't objected to 19 authentication or foundation. That was part of our 20 pretrial. They objected to relevancy, but they 21 didn't -- 22 MR. OSBORNE: And hearsay. 23 MS. MARSHALL: And hearsay, but they didn't 24 object to foundation or authenticity. 25 THE COURT: Show me where this is an 2114 1 exception, this police report is a public record and 2 exception under the rules. 3 MS. MARSHALL: (Indicating.) Start reading at 4 the bottom. 5 THE COURT: In the text or -- 6 MS. MARSHALL: In the text and then it talks 7 about the difference in a criminal case. 8 THE COURT: (Reviewing document.) 9 Mr. Osborne, what is the exception in a civil case? 10 MR. OSBORNE: Same issue that came up with the 11 DCFS records when I said it was a public record and 12 you ruled all those couldn't come into evidence. 13 THE COURT: There was a case right on point 14 that says that does not fall into this exception. 15 MR. OSBORNE: Judge, this is -- there is 16 hearsay within hearsay. This is a statement of the 17 property owner, David Wagner, trespassing 18 Mr. Destefano. 19 THE COURT: How about that? 20 MS. MARSHALL: Your Honor, I don't think that 21 it's the same thing because -- 22 THE COURT: I don't think it's the same thing 23 either, but if this contains statements obtained 24 from someone else, isn't that double hearsay? 25 MS. MARSHALL: I'm not offering it to prove 2115 1 the truth of those statements. I'm offering it to 2 prove the fact that he got a trespass warning after 3 he just denied that he was trespassed. 4 MR. OSBORNE: Judge -- 5 MS. MARSHALL: I'm not offering it to prove 6 any of the statements. 7 MR. OSBORNE: The statement made by the 8 property owners that I am trespassing you from my 9 property, the trespass warning comes from the owner, 10 not from the police. 11 THE COURT: No, this comes from the sheriff. 12 Overruled. It will be admitted. 13 MS. MARSHALL: Thank you. 14 (Open court.) 15 BY MS. MARSHALL: 16 Q Mr. Destefano, if you could -- 17 A Do I finish answering? 18 THE CLERK: Defense 6. 19 (Defendants' Exhibit No. 6 was marked.) 20 Q Mr. Destefano, this what's been marked as 21 Defendants' Exhibit 6 is a trespass warning from the 22 Orange County Sheriff's Office issued to you, Lawrence 23 Destefano, dated June 29th, 1996, with the subject matter 24 "Subject: Picketing the business, Cycle Sports Center"; 25 is that correct? 2116 1 A That I was trespassed for picketing a 2 business? 3 Q Correct. 4 A I don't think that's a law, but, I mean -- I 5 don't think you could be trespassed for picketing 6 anything. I think it's a constitutional right, and I've 7 never seen this document, and my signature's not on this 8 document, and I wasn't given this document. I have never 9 seen it. 10 Q On the portion right here above the property 11 owner's name, it says: "Trespass Warning. You are 12 hereby warned that you are not authorized, licensed, or 13 invited to be in these premises and may be arrested if 14 you refuse to leave or return at any time in the future." 15 Did I read that correctly? 16 A I would assume so, yes, ma'am. 17 Q Now, during the time that you were picketing 18 with Sunbelt or at Sunbelt, you would come into contact 19 with patients, would you not, patients of Sunbelt? 20 A I don't know. 21 Q Could you turn to page 599 of your deposition? 22 A Volume? 23 Q That would be Volume 4, line 10 through 12. 24 "Question: During that time, did you come 25 into contact with patients of Sunbelt" -- 2117 1 A Excuse me. What page, ma'am? 2 Q It's 599, lines 10 through 12. 3 "Question: During that time, did you come 4 into contact with patients of Sunbelt? 5 "Answer: I'm sure I did." 6 And during the time that you were picketing -- 7 A So what was the question? I'm sorry. I 8 wanted to answer that question. What was your -- 9 Q I read you the question and your answer from 10 your deposition. 11 A Oh, I thought you asked me a question previous 12 to me looking in here. 13 Q And during the time that you were picketing, 14 you came into contact with families of Florida Hospital 15 and Sunbelt patients, correct? 16 A I'm -- if you could refresh my memory and just 17 read from it, and that would be correct. 18 Q Okay. Lines 13 to 15. 19 A If you could read from it, I'd agree with it. 20 Q "During that time, you came in contact with 21 families of Florida Hospital and Sunbelt? 22 "Answer: I'm sure I did." 23 Okay. And you also urged people to take their 24 family members out of Sunbelt, correct? 25 A Absolutely. 2118 1 Q And you urged employees to leave Florida 2 Hospital and Sunbelt, correct? 3 A Honest, true employees, yes. They have no 4 business working for a facility like your -- corporation 5 like yours. 6 Q And this was all done in attempt to injure the 7 business of Florida Hospital and Sunbelt, correct? 8 A This was an attempt to make sure that you 9 people never did what you folks did to me ever again to 10 anyone else. 11 Q Sir, could you turn to page 600 of your 12 deposition, line 20? 13 A Volume? 14 Q Volume 4. 15 "Question: And wasn't that done in an attempt 16 to injure the business of Florida Hospital and 17 Sunbelt? 18 "Answer: Yes." 19 On the first day that you were picketing in 20 front of Sunbelt, the day that your mom was sent to ORMC, 21 you were out in front of Sunbelt between the hours of -- 22 sometime between 1:30 and 2:30 and stayed until 23 approximately 4:30 or 5:30, correct? 24 A If that's what my depo says, that would be 25 correct. 2119 1 Q And Rachel Bean called you about 1:00 or so 2 and told you that your mother had been transferred to the 3 emergency room at ORMC, correct? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q And you responded, "Lady, you just earned 6 yourself a picket," correct? 7 A That would be correct. 8 Q And after you got the call from Rachel, you 9 immediately went to an art supply store to make a sign, 10 did you not? 11 A An art -- my friend -- maybe an art supplier. 12 I went to his shop, either -- I'm not going to dispute 13 that, ma'am. That's fine. If I said art supply store, 14 that's fine. 15 Q It was a long time ago, was it not? 16 A True. 17 Q May have been an art supply store, may have 18 been your friend's shop? 19 A Exactly. What's -- 20 Q Okay. And then you immediately went out there 21 to Sunbelt to picket, correct? 22 A That's correct. 23 Q So for the first few hours while your mother 24 was at the ORMC emergency room, you were out picketing in 25 front of Sunbelt, correct? 2120 1 A That's correct. 2 Q And within a day or two after she was 3 transferred to Florida Hospital, you made another sign, 4 correct? 5 A I had to. You guys were trying to get me 6 thrown in jail. 7 Q And that sign said: "I picketed Florida 8 Hospital affiliate Sunbelt nursing home for neglect and 9 abuse of Mom. In return, they called HRS alleging that I 10 sodomized my dying 71-year-old mother. You are 11 disgusting perverts," correct? 12 A That's correct. You're disgusting perverts, 13 all of you. 14 Q And from September 23rd, 1999, until November 15 10th, 1999, which is the date that your mother died, you 16 picketed every day from 8:00 to 9:00 in the morning until 17 about 5:00 or 6:00 at night, correct? 18 A On my good days, I tried to get up at 6:00. 19 Q And you didn't take weekends off, did you? 20 A I don't think so. 21 Q So up until your mother's death on November 22 10th, 1999, you were at Sunbelt nursing home picketing 23 all day every day, correct? 24 A And your hospital. I'd go across the street. 25 Q You'd go to both places? 2121 1 A Yes. 2 Q And you would agree that you held up that sign 3 for the public at large to examine, correct? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q And you published this sign voluntarily, 6 correct? 7 A Voluntarily, yes. 8 Q And you continued to picket until at least 9 February of 2002, correct? 10 A If I stated that in my deposition, that would 11 be correct. 12 Q Or if you stated that in your interrogatories, 13 your answers to interrogatories? 14 A That would be correct. 15 Q So February of 2002, that's -- that's a little 16 over a year and a half, correct, approximately? 17 A I'm not even thinking about that right now, 18 ma'am. 19 Q Does that sound about right to you? 20 A Ma'am, go ahead. I'm not going to waste my 21 time counting the months. If you say that's it, that's 22 fine, calculate it. 23 Q And when you would stand out on the street in 24 front of Sunbelt or in front of Florida Hospital, you 25 would ask people what they thought about the allegations 2122 1 that you had fondled your mother's vaginal area, correct? 2 A I was trying to bring their attention to the 3 issue at hand because I never wanted it to happen to 4 anyone else again ever. 5 Q So your answer to my question is, yes, you 6 would ask people what they thought about the allegations 7 that you had fondled your mother's vaginal area? 8 A I'd say did you know they accused me of this? 9 What do you think of those allegations? I wanted 10 people -- yes. And you received a lot of calls at your 11 human resources office asking about it. They wanted to 12 know if you did this to me. 13 Q You also asked people on the streets what they 14 thought about the allegations that you had anal and oral 15 sex with your mom, correct? 16 A Yes, that's correct, what you accused me of. 17 Q And you would also ask people on the street 18 what they thought about the allegations that you stuck 19 your penis in your mother's rectum, correct? 20 A It was mostly towards your executives that 21 would come by and cuss at me, spit on my sign, yes, that 22 had their coffee that came in smiling, didn't worry about 23 anything. 24 Q You would also yell that to families of 25 patients that were going in Sunbelt, didn't you? 2123 1 A That cussed at me, that were loyal to your 2 facility, yes. I did not bother anyone. I did not cuss 3 at anyone. I did not yell at anyone that did not attack 4 me first verbally. 5 Q Okay. Isn't it true that you also entered 6 onto the property of Adventist Health Systems and went 7 through their Dumpster? 8 A Yes, that would be correct. 9 Q And you removed two bags of materials away 10 from the premises, didn't you? 11 A I removed about 150 bags out of your dumpers 12 at your corporate headquarters. 13 Q Okay. 14 A I'd be there every -- right. I surveillanced 15 your headquarters. I went into your Dumpsters. I pulled 16 out all your documents, your corporate memos, yes. 17 Q And you used some of the material -- the 18 information that you obtained from the Dumpster to 19 prepare fliers that you handed out while you were 20 picketing, correct? 21 A Your interoffice memos, yes, where you wanted 22 to settle lawsuits about ants on your mattresses and we 23 better settle because this is bad for us. I apologize. 24 MS. MARSHALL: I move to strike that answer 25 and ask the witness to answer the question that's 2124 1 been asked. 2 THE COURT: That motion is denied. Go ahead. 3 BY MS. MARSHALL: 4 Q You've also published your story and all of 5 the allegations on the Internet, haven't you? 6 A I don't know if it's been -- no, I didn't 7 publish anything on the Internet. 8 Q Let me see if I can refresh your memory. 9 A You don't have to. I have not published 10 anything on the Internet, so there's nothing to be 11 refreshed. 12 Q Well, let me just show you this. 13 A Show me whatever you want. I'm telling you I 14 did not publish anything on the Internet. 15 Q Is it your testimony that you did not publish 16 an article, Re: The Lies of Nursing Homes, posted by 17 Larry Destefano on July 21st, 2005? 18 A That is correct. That is correct. I did not 19 publish this. Now, please bring some proof forward. 20 Q Okay. You did not post anything on the 21 Internet for everybody to read? 22 A That's correct. 23 Q Let me see if I can refresh your memory with 24 another document. 25 A Okay. 2125 1 Q Mr. Destefano, did you post on CourtTV.com all 2 of the allegations in your story on that Internet site? 3 A No, I did not. 4 MS. MARSHALL: I have no further questions. 5 THE WITNESS: Is that it? 6 MS. MARSHALL: That's all that I have, 7 Mr. Destefano. Thank you. 8 THE WITNESS: You're welcome, ma'am. 9 THE COURT: Mr. Townsend, cross-examine the 10 witness? 11 - - - - - 12 CROSS-EXAMINATION 13 BY MR. TOWNSEND: 14 Q Good morning, Mr. Destefano. How are you 15 doing? 16 A Good morning, sir. How are you? 17 Q Just a few. We have established that you 18 first became aware that your mother had been transferred 19 to ORMC when you got the call from Rachel Bean between 20 about 1:00 and 2:00 in the afternoon, correct? 21 A That's correct. 22 Q And then you immediately went and began 23 picketing at Florida Hospital? 24 A That's correct. 25 Q After you completed that picketing, then you 2126 1 went over to ORMC to see your mother, correct? 2 A After I was assured she would be transferred 3 back to Florida Hospital from one of the executives, Irv 4 Hamilton, yes, that's correct. 5 Q And when you arrived at ORMC, you went 6 directly back to see your mother, correct? 7 A Yes. My girlfriend was there, correct. She 8 was outside, actually, and she showed me where my mom 9 was. 10 Q And during the time that you were with your 11 mother at ORMC, you were -- you did some passive range of 12 motion treatments for her, did you not? 13 A That's correct. I stood by her bed. I moved 14 her legs out. She was cachectic. I was moving her arms. 15 Q And you would lift and straighten her arms and 16 legs? 17 A I would bend her leg by the knee joint and 18 stretch it gently and move it in and out, yes. 19 Q And you would pull on her fingers, stretch 20 them out? 21 A I would gently, yes, stretch her fingers. 22 Q And at some point while you were at Orlando 23 Regional Medical Center emergency room, two security 24 people came to your mother's room and told you that you 25 needed to leave; is that correct? 2127 1 A That's correct. 2 Q And initially you ignored them, correct? 3 A No, that's not correct. I thought that there 4 was a fire drill. They said, sir, you need to leave the 5 room. I said, sure. I walked outside. I said, what's 6 going on? I thought there was some kind of fire drill. 7 I thought the place had to be evacuated. 8 I looked outside and I saw other family 9 members on both sides in other rooms. I said, are we all 10 going outside? And they both stood there and they said, 11 no, sir, you need to leave the room. I said, are you 12 just asking me to leave the room? They wouldn't answer 13 me. 14 And I said -- I mean, I was just asking, do we 15 need to evacuate the emergency room? They ignored me. 16 They weren't talking to me. And then I just went back 17 inside my mother's room, and I ignored them, correct. 18 Q And at some point after that, you did 19 voluntarily leave the hospital, correct? 20 A Your hospital? 21 Q Yes, sir. 22 A I left the hospital when my mother was in an 23 ambulance and being transferred back to Florida Hospital. 24 Q It's not your -- do you recall -- strike that. 25 You did not leave at some point to go to the 2128 1 7-Eleven or to go get your car and then come back? You 2 briefly left and left your cell phone number where you 3 could be reached? 4 A No. I was at your hospital at all times. I 5 stepped outside. I was at your hospital at all times. 6 Q You stepped outside? 7 A I stepped outside your hospital with my 8 girlfriend talking to her friend. Her friend was there 9 outside the emergency room. 10 Q You left the emergency room? 11 A Yes. 12 Q All right. At any point, you were not there 13 when the Orlando Police Department officer was there to 14 take your statement, were you? 15 A I saw the Orlando Police Department walking in 16 the hallways. They were walking by me. You have -- you 17 have an Orlando Police Department officer sitting at 18 your -- right there in the emergency room. I was walking 19 passed him. 20 Q Let me ask you to look at the statement made 21 by Officer Padilla. This is in evidence. 22 MR. TOWNSEND: May I approach the witness, 23 Your Honor? 24 THE COURT: Yes, sir. 25 BY MR. TOWNSEND: 2129 1 Q I've highlighted in yellow, and look at that 2 and see if that refreshes your recollection. 3 A I don't need to have my recollection 4 refreshed. I was there. I know what happened. 5 Q Would you agree that Officer Padilla in his 6 report said: "I then attempted to speak to Carolina's 7 son, Lawrence. Lawrence had left the hospital prior to 8 my arrival. Lawrence had left the hospital his cell and 9 phone number." 10 Is that what -- do you agree that that's what 11 Dr., I mean, Officer Padilla said? 12 A Yes. 13 Q And then at some point you returned -- 14 A I was -- 15 Q -- back to your mother's room? 16 A Yes. 17 Q If you want to be that specific. All right, 18 sir. And you were never questioned by the security 19 guards at ORMC, were you? 20 A No. I don't think I allowed them to. 21 Q And you agree that you did kiss your mother 22 while you were at Orlando Regional Healthcare System? 23 A I kissed my mother when my mother said, mi 24 boyeto, come here, benna come. 25 Q Did she say that at Orlando Regional? 2130 1 A She said that all the time. 2 Q Did she say that at Orlando Regional? 3 A At ORMC? No. 4 Q All right. But you did kiss your mother while 5 she was in ORMC? 6 A Yes. 7 Q And you kissed her on more than one occasion? 8 A At ORMC? 9 Q Yes, sir. 10 A I don't know. If I did, I did. 11 MR. TOWNSEND: That's all the questions I 12 have, Your Honor. 13 THE COURT: Redirect? 14 MR. OSBORNE: Madam Clerk, can I have defense 15 Exhibit 4 in evidence, please? 16 - - - - - 17 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 18 BY MR. OSBORNE: 19 Q Mr. Destefano, I want to show you Defense 20 Exhibit 4 there. 21 MR. OSBORNE: Your Honor, I'm going to publish 22 portions of Defense Exhibit 4 that's in evidence. 23 These are answers to interrogatories. 24 Q Interrogatory No. 8 was list all individuals 25 that you believe have subjected you to hatred, disdain, 2131 1 ridicule or contempt for purposes of your complaint. For 2 each person list their name, address, phone number, the 3 date and time any such incident and the specific nature 4 and content of each such incident. 5 Paragraph 9. List all individuals which you 6 claim have subjected you to shame, humiliation, mental 7 anguish or hurt feelings; and for each such person, list 8 their name, address, phone number, the date and time of 9 all such incidents and the specific nature and content of 10 each such incident. 11 I'm going to publish some of the responses to 12 those questions. Starting at page 8, specific nature and 13 content of the defamatory incident, quote, The son has 14 visited and been kissing his mother on the lips 15 affectionate. Name of individuals receiving that report, 16 Donna O'Donnell and Gossie Freeze, and they're with the 17 Department of Children and Family Services. 18 MS. MARSHALL: Your Honor, I'm going to 19 object. This is beyond the scope of cross. That 20 was not anything that he was asked about in his 21 cross-examination. 22 THE COURT: Approach the bench. 23 (Bench conference.) 24 MR. OSBORNE: She entered this document in 25 evidence, and I'm entitled to comment on the 2132 1 document she entered into evidence on 2 cross-examination, this very document. And she 3 talked about one part of it, but I'm entitled to 4 publish other parts in this document. This is 5 cross-examination, and it's proper redirect. 6 MS. MARSHALL: It's beyond the scope of what I 7 asked him about. 8 THE COURT: Overruled. Go ahead. 9 (Open court.) 10 BY MR. OSBORNE: 11 Q Date of defamatory statements: September 21, 12 1999. Time of defamatory statement: 12:09. Name of 13 individual defaming: Rachel Bean. Next comment, 14 specific nature and content of defamatory statement: 15 Bright red blood was seen on the pad of her bed. The son 16 was present at the time. 17 Same individual receiving that statement, time 18 of defamatory report, 12:09, name of the individual 19 defaming, Rachel Bean. That again was Department of 20 Children and Family Services. 21 The next one. Specific nature and content of 22 the defamatory statement: Quote, Carolina was medically 23 checked and found to be bleeding from her rectal area, 24 closed quote. The next one -- and the name of this 25 individual, again, 12:09, Rachel Bean to Department of 2133 1 Children and Family Services. 2 Next comment. Specific nature and content of 3 defamatory incident. Quote, It is suspected son 4 disimpacted his mother this morning causing bleeding from 5 her hemorrhoid, closed quote. Name of person defaming: 6 Rachel Bean. Time of report: 12:09 p.m. People that 7 was told to: Department of Children and Family Services. 8 Next one, specific nature and content of 9 incident. Quote, Her son was recently laying on -- 10 MS. MARSHALL: Your Honor, I object to this. 11 May we approach? 12 THE COURT: Yes. 13 (Bench conference.) 14 MS. MARSHALL: Your Honor, he's just using 15 this as an opportunity to publish what you've 16 already ruled is not admissible. 17 THE COURT: The document is admitted into 18 evidence. First, let me just say this. Are you 19 asking your client a question? What are you doing 20 here? 21 MR. OSBORNE: I am publishing a document in 22 evidence, and then I'm going to ask him a question, 23 Judge, at the time I'm done with this. 24 THE COURT: Whoa, whoa, whoa, just a minute. 25 MR. OSBORNE: I can ask a question -- 2134 1 THE COURT: Just a minute. These are -- this 2 document you moved into evidence. 3 MS. MARSHALL: It was an answer to an 4 interrogatory. 5 THE COURT: But you moved the whole document 6 in? 7 MS. MARSHALL: Because -- because Mr. Osborne 8 objected to me cross-examining him until they were 9 moved into evidence. 10 THE COURT: But you moved them in. They're 11 in. He has a right to read the whole thing to the 12 jury. But whether you can read them in and then -- 13 what -- 14 MR. OSBORNE: I will ask a question. 15 THE COURT: Ask a question. Question your 16 witness. If you want to read these at another 17 point, I think you can because they're in evidence. 18 I concede that you can publish them, but ask your 19 witness a question. 20 MR. OSBORNE: Thank you, Your Honor. Thank 21 you, Judge. 22 (Open court.) 23 BY MR. OSBORNE: 24 Q Mr. Destefano, I'd like you to turn to page 9 25 of the answers. 2135 1 A Yes. 2 Q In terms of these statements that I published 3 to the jury, are these statements -- 4 A I apologize. Where it says the page on the 5 bottom? 6 Q There are several documents in there. I'm 7 looking at the answers. It starts at page 8 and then go 8 to page 9. Just keep it clipped together. I'd like you 9 to follow along with me. Okay? 10 A Yes. 11 Q The questions that I've been publishing to the 12 jury from this document, these statements that were made, 13 the 12:09 statement, what's your understanding of who 14 made that statement and how that statement was made? 15 MS. MARSHALL: Objection, lack of foundation. 16 A To -- 17 THE COURT: I didn't understand that question. 18 Just a minute. Sustained. 19 BY MR. OSBORNE: 20 Q Mr. Destefano, did you sign these 21 interrogatory answers? 22 A Yes, I did. 23 Q All right. Do you contend that the statement 24 that's quoted in this document -- 25 A The one at 12:09 p.m.? 2136 1 Q Hang on. The statement that says, quote, The 2 son has visited her and been seen kissing his mother on 3 the lip overly affectionate acting. Do you contend that 4 as a defamatory statement, page 8, second to bottom 5 paragraph? 6 A The one at 12:09? 7 Q Correct. Do you contend that is a defamatory 8 statement where it says the son has visited her and been 9 seen kissing his mother on the lips overly affectionate 10 acting? 11 A Yes. That was a report that was called in. 12 Q Just answer my question. 13 A Oh, yes, yes. 14 Q Do you contend that the statement, quote, 15 Bright red blood was seen on the bed pad of her bed, the 16 son was present at the time, do you contend that to be a 17 defamatory statement? 18 A Yes. It was a lie. 19 Q Turn to the next page, please. The statement, 20 quote, Carolina was medically checked and found to be 21 bleeding from her rectal area, closed quote, Do you 22 contend that to be a defamatory statement? 23 A It was a lie, yes. 24 Q The next statement -- and I'm going to publish 25 this and then ask you the question. Specific nature and 2137 1 content of defamatory incident. Quote, Suspected son 2 disimpacted his mother this morning causing bleeding from 3 her hemorrhoid, closed quote. 12:09. Name of individual 4 defaming: Rachel Bean, Department -- people who received 5 that, Department of Children and Family Services. Do you 6 contend that statement to be defamatory, sir? 7 A That's a lie, yes. 8 Q Next statement, quote, Her son was recently 9 laying on top of her and kissing her passionately. When 10 staff entered the room and surprised him, he stopped. 11 Later blood was found on an underpad which she explained 12 as being caused by him disimpacting her on a weekly 13 basis, closed quote. 14 Do you contend that to be a defamatory 15 statement? 16 A That's a lie, yes. 17 Q The time of that defamatory report was 4:12 18 p.m., name of individual defaming was Rachel Bean, and 19 the recipient was Department of Children and Family 20 Services. 21 Listen to the next one, Mr. Destefano, 22 page 10. Specific nature and content of defamatory 23 incident. Quote, A doctor examined her and only found 24 evidence of bleeding hemorrhoids, closed quote. 25 Do you contend that to be a defamatory 2138 1 statement? 2 A I contend that's a lie, yes. 3 Q And that was a statement reported, again, at 4 4:12 p.m. by Rachel Bean to Department of Children and 5 Family Services? 6 MS. MARSHALL: Objection, Your Honor, lack of 7 foundation and personal knowledge. 8 THE COURT: Overruled. 9 A That's a lie. 10 Q Let's go to the next statement, Mr. Destefano, 11 and I'm going to ask you if you consider this to be 12 defamatory after I publish it to the jury. Specific 13 nature and content, Carolina was transported to Florida 14 Hospital South for examination. 15 A I'm sorry. Could you show me where we're at, 16 Mr. Osborne? I apologize. 17 Q Page 10. I'm publishing -- right here. He 18 followed her there and trying to make her walk -- 19 A Could we start at the beginning, please? 20 Q Yes, sir. Quote, Carolina was transported to 21 Florida Hospital South for examination. He followed her 22 there and trying to make her walk, he drug her around the 23 floor pulling a bandage off one ankle that has a 24 decubitus on it, closed quote. 25 Do you contend that's a defamatory statement? 2139 1 A That's a lie. That never happened, yes. 2 Q Yes, sir. You've answered the question. Time 3 of defamatory report, 4:12 p.m. Name of individual 4 defaming, Rachel Bean. Recipient, Department of Children 5 and Family Services. 6 Next statement I'm going to ask you about, 7 Mr. Destefano, I'm going to ask you if you consider this 8 to be defamatory. Specific nature and content of 9 defamatory incident. Quote, He forced her mouth open and 10 pours water in her mouth trying to force her to drink, 11 closed quote. 12 Do you contend that statement to be 13 defamatory? 14 A Yes, that's a lie. 15 Q Date of that defamatory statement was 16 September 21, 1999. Time of defamatory statement, 4:12 17 p.m. Name of individual defaming, Rachel Bean, and 18 Department of -- recipient, Department of Children and 19 Family Services. 20 Next, Mr. Destefano, go on to page 11, and I 21 want you to listen to this statement, and I want to ask 22 you if you consider this to be defamatory. Sunbelt 23 nursing staff reported to the Department of Children and 24 Family Services investigator that I raped and sodomized 25 my mother, that I had engaged in oral sex with my mother, 2140 1 and that I inflicted cuts, bite marks and puncture wounds 2 on my mother's genitalia. 3 Do you consider that to be defamatory 4 statement, sir? 5 A Yes, I do. 6 Q And published to the Department of Children 7 and Family Services investigator that received such a 8 defamatory report was Judy Simms, and the date was 9 unknown of that. And I'm going to quote this in terms of 10 the source from your sworn interrogatory, sir. 11 "According to Judy Simms, she obtained 12 knowledge of the defamation from specific named 13 individuals with law enforcement, hospital risk manager, 14 my girlfriend present. I strongly refused to cooperate 15 with an interrogation conducted by Ms. Simms unless she 16 assured me that specific named individuals had personally 17 made the defamatory allegations to her. 18 "Ms. Simms acknowledged a record of specific 19 named individuals that made the defamatory allegations. 20 At this time, I fully cooperated with the interrogation 21 and answered all questions, including the defamatory 22 allegations listed above." 23 Is that your testimony, sir? 24 A That's my testimony, yes. 25 Q Mr. Destefano, you were asked about formal 2141 1 training that you had, and you were shown page 259 of 2 your deposition dealing with physical therapy. You 3 weren't asked, sir, and I think you wanted to explain, 4 have you had any informal training in terms of physical 5 therapy? 6 A A lot of informal training, yes. 7 Q Tell the jury what informal training you had. 8 A I was calling Mr. Mark Koller, who's an RN 9 sitting in the back there. He spent many hours 10 explaining to me how you do a disimpaction procedure. 11 Q No, sir, I'm talking about physical therapy. 12 A Oh, physical therapy. 13 Q Have you had any informal training in physical 14 therapy? 15 A Many hours. 16 Q Tell the jury how you got that. 17 A While my mother was at the Alzheimer's 18 facility when I first got there, they taught me about a 19 gait belt that I could purchase, which is a belt you put 20 around your mother's waist that has handles on it to help 21 her walk so she doesn't stumble. I can catch onto her. 22 Just walking her around, cardiovascular activity, 23 range -- 24 Q What about the range of motion you talked 25 about, pulling the fingers, did somebody -- 2142 1 A Range of motion -- as you age, you become 2 cachectic. You become stiff. Every morning and every 3 evening what I would do is lift her legs up, and you bend 4 the calf in just to keep the joints mobilized and 5 lubricated, I guess, and just moving all the time. I did 6 it with her elbows. I did it with her fingers. 7 Q Okay. So in terms of when you're talking 8 about what you were doing with your mother at this 9 physical therapy, was that, in your mind, beneficial to 10 her, given her cachectic state? 11 A Yes, it was. 12 Q You were asked at length about your telling 13 the Navy that you had gone to high school when you 14 probably only attended a day. Why did you tell the Navy 15 you went to high school? 16 A I think that's what they needed for me to join 17 the military. 18 Q And let me just show you what you were 19 published the other day and ask you, in fact, didn't the 20 Navy request the transcripts from your high school? 21 A Request transcripts, yes. 22 Q So if you had perhaps overstated the number of 23 days you went to high school, the Navy got your 24 transcripts and checked you out anyway, didn't they? 25 MS. MARSHALL: Objection, lack of foundation. 2143 1 THE COURT: Sustained. 2 Q You also were asked, Mr. Destefano, at some 3 length whether you're living with your mother or living 4 with Kay -- living with Kay or living with your mother at 5 a hotel and you wanted to explain. I'm going to give you 6 the opportunity to explain that situation, if you would. 7 A Mr. Osborne, to be quite honest with you, I 8 don't even know what I want to explain. I don't even 9 know what we were talking about. I don't even know where 10 we were going, and I really don't even care about that. 11 As far as whether I lived -- I was at a hospital -- with 12 Kay, I brought her to the hospital. I don't know what 13 the issue is at hand. I don't know -- 14 Q All right. Tell me this. Let's talk about -- 15 you were asked about -- you said you were in bed with 16 your mother on one occasion at Florida Hospital and you 17 didn't get a chance to explain. Can you explain that one 18 for the jury? 19 A Yes. I didn't have my vehicle yet, that truck 20 I had ordered. I had a motorcycle at the time. I was 21 meeting with the real estate agents, and I remember I 22 was -- it was -- it was pretty hot, and I had just gotten 23 back -- got back to my mom's hospital room. 24 And she knew I was there. There were times 25 when my mom knew who I was, and she said mi boyeto, come 2144 1 here, come lay down. I had my helmet in my hand. I was 2 exhausted. She was on the bed. My mother moved over. 3 She was able to move over, and I just plopped down on the 4 bed next to her. Maybe one leg was hanging over. And we 5 were holding hands, and we were just talking about the 6 day. I was just talking to her about my day. 7 Q And I'd like to move into another topic. You 8 were asked about the OPD report, which is in evidence, in 9 terms of the time that you were trespassed at OPD. And 10 what didn't come out was the last paragraph of this 11 document. I'd like you to read the last -- the 12 highlighted part of that document, sir. 13 A "It was apparent that all -- "it was apparent 14 that Destefano, although calm at the time, was going to 15 become extremely upset; therefore, these actions were 16 necessary." 17 Q Would you agree that that was your state at 18 that time, that you were calm at the time? 19 A I was calm all the time. 20 Q What did Dr. Ted Hamilton say to you that 21 prompted the response that you were asked about 22 yesterday? 23 A Where I said I was coming after him? 24 Q Yes, sir. Well, let me ask you this first. 25 In terms of your mother, was she still alive at the time 2145 1 this comment was made by Dr. Hamilton? 2 A She died the night before. 3 Q Okay. So she had just died the night before. 4 And what did Mr. Hamilton say to you? 5 A I was standing there with my picket sign, and 6 I was crying. My mom had just died the night before. 7 And he was standing across the street, and in a jolly way 8 had his hands in his pocket and he took one hand out and 9 he said, hey, Mr. Destefano, good morning. How ya doing. 10 And I just ignored him. 11 And he said, how's your mom? And I said, my 12 mom died last night. And he tilted his head and he 13 smiled and he said, oh, sorry to hear about that. Well, 14 have a nice day, and he just kind of skipped along. And 15 I ran across the street, and I -- I ran up to him, and I 16 told him -- I told him I was going to get him. I was 17 going to get him one day. And I told him -- I don't 18 know. I think I said I was going to hurt him real bad, 19 and I was going to knock his teeth down his throat if I 20 ever got ahold of him. 21 Q You didn't do anything at that time, though, 22 did you? 23 A No, I didn't. 24 Q You also were asked about the situation where 25 there was one time that you were -- in terms of getting 2146 1 in bed with your mother, she was going no, no, no, and 2 you wanted to explain that. Do you remember that 3 situation? 4 A I don't remember anything. All I remember is 5 I've never done anything that these people said I did to 6 my mom. That's all I know. This is all one big lie, and 7 they know it. 8 MS. MARSHALL: Your Honor, I object. 9 Nonresponsive to the question. 10 THE COURT: Sustained. 11 MR. OSBORNE: Your Honor, may I approach 12 briefly? 13 THE COURT: Yes. 14 (Bench conference.) 15 MR. OSBORNE: Can we take a five-minute break 16 so I can calm my client down a little bit? 17 THE COURT: Do you have any objection to a 18 brief recess? 19 MR. TOWNSEND: I don't. 20 MS. MARSHALL: (Shakes head.) 21 THE COURT: Okay. We'll take a brief recess. 22 (Open court.) 23 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, we're going 24 to take about a five-minute recess. There are a 25 couple things that the Court needs to address. And 2147 1 I'd ask you to go into the jury room. Five or ten 2 minutes, please. 3 (Jury exits.) 4 THE COURT: Mr. Destefano, why don't you 5 return to your counsel's table, and I want to take 6 something up before we take this brief -- everyone 7 be seated, please. 8 I want to go back to Mr. Osborne's objection 9 to the summary of the videotapes. And the thing 10 that occurred to me and that I wanted to review was 11 the statute concerning summaries of evidence, and I 12 wanted to take a look at the case law as well, and 13 that being 90.956, which deals with a chart, summary 14 or calculation which can be used to summarize 15 voluminous writings, recordings or photographs. 16 That also requires notice to the other side 17 and the availability of copying by the other side at 18 a reasonable time and place. And moreover, there 19 appears to be a case that is pretty similar to the 20 present case called Bryant versus State. It's a 21 criminal case out of the First DCA in 2002, in which 22 the appellate court reversed on the basis of the 23 admission of an edited, enhanced videotape over 24 objection without granting the defendant there an 25 opportunity to review the videotape. 2148 1 And given my review of that law, I'm inclined 2 to sustain the objection to the compilation if that 3 was not on the pretrial statement as a summary and 4 compilation. Is that the case, Ms. Marshall? 5 MS. MARSHALL: Your Honor, I believe that that 6 is not the case because when we had discussed the 7 videos on the motion to compel -- 8 THE COURT: Let me ask you to answer the 9 question, Ms. Marshall. Was the summary identified 10 on the pretrial statement? 11 MS. MARSHALL: Yes, it was, Your Honor. 12 THE COURT: May I see that, please? I don't 13 have it in front of me. 14 MR. OSBORNE: Right here, Judge. 15 MS. MARSHALL: And, Your Honor, it was 16 available for re -- 17 THE COURT: Where is it? Can you tell me 18 where it's identified as and how it's identified, 19 because what Mr. Osborne has shown me is Exhibit W, 20 videotapes or photographs of Lawrence Destefano 21 picketing or handing out fliers. 22 MS. MARSHALL: That is correct, Your Honor. 23 THE COURT: And you would maintain that that 24 is an adequate description of this summary that you 25 intend to introduce? 2149 1 MS. MARSHALL: Your Honor, I would, because 2 when we had the hearing on whether the defendant -- 3 or the plaintiffs had to produce the videos, one of 4 their objections was it had things that weren't 5 relevant on there. And we had, I believe, at one of 6 the hearings discussed that if it, you know, if we 7 used it that, yes, it would be edited down to omit 8 the stuff that was not relevant. 9 So I think that when we had our pretrial 10 review, Mr. Glick did not choose to review any of 11 the videos that we had. They were there. They were 12 available. 13 THE COURT: Was the edited version available 14 at that time? 15 MS. MARSHALL: There was an edited version 16 available on a tape, and I have since had it 17 converted to DVD because I think that's what we -- 18 THE COURT: Is that what you intend to use? 19 MS. MARSHALL: That is correct. 20 THE COURT: So what you're saying is that that 21 was discussed with Mr. Glick and made available to 22 him? 23 MS. MARSHALL: I'm saying it was there when we 24 had our pretrial, and he didn't look at any of them. 25 MR. CONWAY: Your Honor, could I respond to 2150 1 that? 2 THE COURT: No, Mr. Conway. But the question, 3 I think, is whether this was -- whether the 4 plaintiff was duly notified of the existence of this 5 summary, and I'm just not sure that the pretrial 6 statement is adequate notification. 7 MS. MARSHALL: Pursuant to the Court's order, 8 on two occasions I have sat down with plaintiff's 9 attorney with all of our exhibits of what, you know, 10 each identification exhibit number in a box and said 11 have at it twice. 12 THE COURT: And within that box was this 13 summary? 14 MS. MARSHALL: That is correct, both times, 15 Your Honor. 16 THE COURT: Mr. Osborne? 17 MR. OSBORNE: Judge, I wasn't there a year ago 18 at the first time, but when I -- I had the joint 19 pretrial statement. I was aware there were 20 videotapes and photographs of Mr. Destefano 21 picketing in mass. I was never told verbally or by 22 this document that this was a summary or is edited. 23 I was not put on notice to even look for an edited 24 version. Just because it was in a box and there 25 were four boxes of exhibits there, I had relied upon 2151 1 the joint pretrial statement where I had certain 2 questions about things I didn't understand. 3 I thought I understood what videotapes or 4 photographs of him picketing were. I never 5 understood that there was a 23-minute edited version 6 done by them. And under 90.956, I was entitled to 7 timely written notice, and this is just not 8 sufficient written notice. 9 I think the proof in the pudding is I'm a new 10 counsel in this case, and I can only rely upon 11 what's in the joint pretrial statement and what's 12 told to me by counsel. I was not alerted by the 13 written word, and I was not told by the verbal word 14 by counsel. And for me to have ferreted this out in 15 an hour meeting going through exhibits is just not 16 something that 90.956 contemplates I should have to 17 do. 18 MR. TOWNSEND: Your Honor, after Mr. Osborne 19 got involved in this case, we specifically had a 20 meeting to go over all of everybody's exhibits at 21 Ms. Marshall's office, and all of the exhibits that 22 were intended to be put into evidence were there, 23 available for review. And as Ms. Marshall said, the 24 edited version was there. And if Mr. Osborne chose 25 not to look through -- to look at the videotapes 2152 1 that Ms. Marshall said that were there that were 2 going into evidence, then that should have been at 3 his peril. 4 THE COURT: I disagree. I think Mr. Osborne's 5 right. His objection is sustained. The 23-minute 6 videotape will not be admitted. Take a brief 7 recess. 8 MR. OSBORNE: Thank you, Your Honor. 9 MS. MARSHALL: Your Honor, may I -- then can 10 we admit the whole thing? They're going to be 11 voluminous. There are like four tapes there. 12 THE COURT: Do you have an objection to that? 13 MR. OSBORNE: If they want to put them all in, 14 they can put them all in. 15 MS. MARSHALL: Thank you, Your Honor. 16 MR. TOWNSEND: The defense case does not go on 17 until Thursday. That would seem like that would be 18 enough for him to designate what portion of the 19 four-hour video he wants to add to the 23 minutes. 20 THE COURT: That may be because the Court's 21 view is -- well, I don't know whether that can be 22 worked out or not, whether this can be agreed to and 23 such designation given, maybe, but we're going to be 24 pretty busy. So I don't know if Mr. Osborne's going 25 to have the time to do that. 2153 1 But as it stands right now, that 23-minute 2 tape will not be used. I don't think it was 3 properly identified. I don't think plaintiff's 4 counsel received proper notice, written notice under 5 90.956. I also think that the case that I referred 6 to is instructive. And maybe something can be done 7 before Thursday, and I'll be happy to readdress it 8 at that time, but as things stand now, this is not 9 coming in. 10 MR. OSBORNE: Thank you, Your Honor. 11 (A 5-minute recess was had.) 12 THE COURT DEPUTY: Bring the jury in, please. 13 (Jury enters.) 14 THE COURT: Mr. Osborne. 15 MR. OSBORNE: May it please the Court. 16 THE COURT: Yes, sir. 17 BY MR. OSBORNE: 18 Q Mr. Destefano, you had mentioned role playing 19 with your mother when you were caring for her. Tell the 20 jury briefly why you role played with her. 21 A My primary focus for role playing with my 22 mother -- again, she was in a confused state. When it 23 came to disimpaction, this was a very disturbing 24 procedure for me at the beginning. Over time it just 25 became a necessity. It was a comfort measure I did to my 2154 1 mother. 2 It was very easy for me to trick her into not 3 thinking it was her son doing this when it had to be 4 done. I'd say, Mom, do you have to go to the bathroom, 5 and she'd go to the bathroom. I'd say, look, I'm going 6 to go get the doctor. Okay, Mom? She'd say, yes, thank 7 you. Thank you. I'd leave the room, and then I'd yell 8 out, Dr. Cruz, Dr. Cruz, and I'd hear my mom go, oh, 9 thank you, Doctor, Doctor. 10 I would come in, and she would be staring at 11 the bathroom floor. And she felt -- and I had played the 12 role of the doctor that was doing this to mother, and it 13 was done to maintain dignity. I didn't want her -- maybe 14 sometimes she did think her son was doing it. Most of 15 the time I truly felt she thought it was a doctor doing 16 this. 17 Q Okay. Mr. Destefano, let me ask you this. 18 You were asked on cross about one time getting in bed 19 with your mother, and she was going no, no, no. 20 A Yes, I remember. 21 Q Tell the jury about that. 22 A When I started sleeping with my mother at the 23 house when she was in that wandering stage, we got all 24 done, we were getting ready, and I thought there was -- 25 we watched the TMC channel where they play those oldies 2155 1 and goodies. We'd go to bed and watch Humphrey Bogart 2 movies, and I had the TV. 3 She was ready for bed. I said, Mom, I'll be 4 in there, and let's get ready for bed. And she was 5 sitting there, and she looked at me and she says, no, no, 6 no, not tonight. And I said, no, no, no, not tonight 7 what? She said, no, no, no hanky-panky tonight. You 8 know, she thought I was -- I don't know. She thought I 9 was someone else or her husband or from a long time ago. 10 And that was just a -- it was just a funny scene. 11 Q You were asked about your marriage to Mieko, 12 and I think you testified that you got divorced in 1998. 13 A That's correct. 14 Q Did you and Mieko separate before you got 15 divorced? 16 A Mieko and I were separated for about six 17 years. Her husband's in the back there. She's one of my 18 best friends. 19 Q And so at the time that you had your 20 relationship that resulted in a child, were you separated 21 from Meiko? 22 A I had been separated about six years, yes. 23 She was in a relationship with Mark Koller. They were 24 getting ready to get married. 25 Q And let me ask you this. In terms of your 2156 1 vanity plate, why do you have a "Thanks, Mom," vanity 2 plate on your truck? 3 A When I was in Arizona, we were -- I said I had 4 to go look at a truck, and my mom was with me. She told 5 me it was a beautiful truck, and she said she wanted to 6 buy me the truck. That didn't matter. I mean, it was 7 her money, but my vanity plate on the truck is 8 everything -- when I put "Thanks, Mom," is I'm thanking 9 her for everything. Everything I am is what my mother 10 is, and I'm proud of myself, and the reason I'm who I am 11 is because I'm a product of my mother. And that was just 12 something I wanted to put there to honor my mother, 13 that's all. 14 Q Mr. Destefano, is there ever a time at any 15 time when you were standing or were about Florida 16 Hospital where Florida Hospital employees would say 17 something to you to make you tend to believe that they 18 had heard these false allegations about you? 19 A Rephrase that, please. 20 Q Was there ever a time when you were either 21 picketing or on the premises at Florida Hospital that 22 employees of Florida Hospital said things to let you -- 23 lead you to conclude that they had heard these false 24 statements about you in the hospital? 25 A Yes. I knew they heard it. 2157 1 Q How did you know that? 2 MS. MARSHALL: Objection, Your Honor, lack of 3 foundation. 4 THE COURT: Sustained. 5 BY MR. OSBORNE: 6 Q Mr. Destefano, did anybody ever say anything 7 to you who you knew to be a Florida Hospital employee to 8 lead you to believe that they had heard these allegations 9 and believed these allegations? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Tell me about that. 12 A There was a gentleman in green scrubs who 13 would come by every day. 14 MS. MARSHALL: Objection, Your Honor, hearsay. 15 THE COURT: Sustained. 16 MR. OSBORNE: Not being offered to prove the 17 matter asserted, Your Honor. 18 THE COURT: Sustained. 19 BY MR. OSBORNE: 20 Q Mr. Destefano, you were asked a lot of 21 questions on cross-examination for several hours, weren't 22 you? 23 A Yes. 24 Q But you were never asked anything about 25 whether these allegations made by Rachel Bean to DCFS 2158 1 that I published in your redirect or that these 2 statements made in these medical records were true or 3 false. Were you asked any questions about that? 4 A Never. 5 Q Are any of these statements that the jury's 6 heard from these various witnesses and have published 7 that were given to DCFS by Rachel Bean, are any of those 8 statements true? 9 A They were all a lie. Every single one of them 10 is a lie, never happened. 11 MR. OSBORNE: No further questions. 12 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, do any of 13 you have a question for this witness? 14 (Bench conference.) 15 THE COURT: There's -- were there ever any 16 allegations of any kind in Arizona against you? 17 MR. OSBORNE: That's fine. 18 MS. MARSHALL: No objection. 19 THE COURT: Why did you return to Orlando? 20 MR. TOWNSEND: That's fine. 21 MR. OSBORNE: (Shakes head.) 22 THE COURT: You did not want anyone else to 23 care for your mother. Did you leave her alone while 24 you picketed? 25 MR. TOWNSEND: While you what? 2159 1 THE COURT: Picketed. 2 MR. TOWNSEND: Okay. 3 THE COURT: Did the parties tell you exactly 4 why you were being trespassed from Sunbelt? 5 MR. OSBORNE: (Nods head.) 6 MS. MARSHALL: No objection. 7 MR. TOWNSEND: No objection. 8 THE COURT: Did you have any intention to sue 9 Sunbelt nursing home when you wrote the note about 10 the dressing? 11 MR. TOWNSEND: That's fine. 12 MS. MARSHALL: No objection. 13 MR. OSBORNE: Fine. 14 THE COURT: Rachel Bean and Mary Thornton 15 claim when they walked into your mother's room at 16 the nursing home you were kissing her passionately. 17 What were you doing when they walked in? 18 MS. MARSHALL: No objection. 19 MR. OSBORNE: That's fine. 20 THE COURT: I'm assuming it's okay if I don't 21 hear from you. You state you don't care about life 22 anymore because of this incident. Is your son worth 23 living for or was your mother the only thing 24 important to you? 25 MR. OSBORNE: That's fine. 2160 1 MS. MARSHALL: No objection. 2 MR. TOWNSEND: No problem. 3 THE COURT: You admit that during your 4 mother's initial visit to Florida Hospital, you laid 5 in bed with her with your foot dangling, in quotes. 6 If your mother did not pose any threat to wander off 7 as she used to, what was the purpose of lying in bed 8 with her in the hospital? 9 MR. OSBORNE: That's the same thing. You can 10 ask it again. That must have been -- 11 THE COURT: He's answered that, but you don't 12 have any objection? 13 MS. MARSHALL: No objection. 14 MR. TOWNSEND: No objection. 15 THE COURT: At present, how do you subside 16 financially, exist? How do you support your son? 17 MS. MARSHALL: No objection. 18 MR. OSBORNE: Fine. 19 THE COURT: Who stated you sodomized your 20 mother? 21 MS. MARSHALL: No objection. 22 MR. TOWNSEND: That's fine. 23 MR. OSBORNE: Fine. 24 THE COURT: Why did you choose to state that 25 on your picket sign? 2161 1 MR. OSBORNE: That's fine. 2 MS. MARSHALL: No objection. 3 MR. TOWNSEND: (Nods head.) 4 (Open court.) 5 THE COURT: Mr. Destefano, I'm going to read 6 these questions. You've seen the drill. I'm going 7 to read them to you. Address your answers to the 8 jury. These are questions from the jury. 9 THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honor. 10 THE COURT: Were there ever any allegations of 11 any kind in Arizona against you? 12 THE WITNESS: The only allegations that ever, 13 ever in my life of sexual allegations that took 14 place was when I refused to give that note back to 15 the defendants. That's the only time I have ever 16 been accused of it was when I didn't give back the 17 note and in that one-day period, and I've never been 18 accused of any sexual allegations after that 24-hour 19 period ever. 20 MS. MARSHALL: Objection, Your Honor, move to 21 strike as nonresponsive to the question. 22 THE COURT: Overruled and denied. 23 Mr. Destefano, are you finished? 24 THE WITNESS: Yes. 25 THE COURT: Why did you return to Orlando? 2162 1 THE WITNESS: To bring my mother back -- 2 THE COURT: I can't explain. 3 THE WITNESS: -- when I was in Arizona? 4 THE COURT: Just do your best to answer the 5 question, and if there are any follow-up questions, 6 they will be asked. 7 THE WITNESS: I went out to Arizona to take 8 care of my mother. I had a choice to stay in 9 Arizona, and I had my girlfriend screaming at me on 10 the phone to please come back home and bring my 11 mother with me and we would care for her here. 12 In hindsight, I felt I made the wrong 13 decision. I shouldn't have listened to my 14 girlfriend, and I should have stayed in Arizona with 15 my mother. That would have been the best thing for 16 my mother, to keep her in the environment she was 17 used to. That's something I feel guilty about and I 18 feel sorry about, and it was a wrong decision. 19 THE COURT: You did not want anyone else to 20 care for your mother. Did you leave her alone while 21 you picketed? 22 THE WITNESS: No. My mother was always -- my 23 mother was cared for at the hospital on the ninth 24 floor while I was picketing. And then we brought 25 her back home, and my girlfriend always cared for my 2163 1 mother. 2 And then for a short period, she was placed in 3 a nursing home until we got her -- she had to be 4 placed there for some reason for a few weeks, and 5 then we brought her back home. But my mother was 6 always cared for while I was picketing. 7 THE COURT: Did the police tell you exactly 8 why you were being trespassed from Sunbelt? 9 THE WITNESS: The police officers told me I 10 was being trespassed from Sunbelt because Rachel 11 Bean and Mary Thornton didn't want me there anymore, 12 and that was it. And they just don't -- I 13 thought -- well, they told me that -- I told the 14 police they couldn't trespass me because my mother's 15 room was her residence. That is under the bill 16 of -- patient's bill of rights. It states that your 17 mother's room in the nursing home is her residence. 18 That's just like your home. And I was explaining 19 that to the police, and all they told me was that's 20 a civil matter, deal with it civilly. 21 THE COURT: Did you have any intention to sue 22 Sunbelt nursing home when you wrote the note about 23 the dressing? 24 THE WITNESS: The only intention for that 25 note -- the only reason I wrote that note is I went 2164 1 out there three times and asked politely to have a 2 wound dressing put on my mother. The only reason 3 that note was written was -- I knew she wouldn't 4 sign the note. It was only used as a tool to prod 5 her. 6 I thought in my mind she'd look at the note 7 and say, I'm not signing that, but I'll go ahead and 8 put a wound dressing on your mother. I only used it 9 as a tool to prod her to do that. 10 There was no way I could sue for my mother. 11 My mother came into the nursing home with decubitus 12 ulcers. They didn't cause it. That was in the 13 record of the hospital before she came in. Even if 14 that was my intent, it wouldn't have gone -- it 15 wasn't my intent, and it wouldn't have gone 16 anywhere. She had three ulcers. I just wanted her 17 wound dressed. 18 THE COURT: Rachel Bean and Mary Thornton 19 claimed when they walked into your mother's room at 20 the nursing home, you were kissing her passionately. 21 What were you doing when they walked in? 22 THE WITNESS: They walked in right behind me 23 when I walked into my mother's room, and the only 24 thing I was doing was turning around as they walked 25 in behind me and telling them to quiet down while 2165 1 they were screaming at me telling me to give them 2 back the note, telling me that by doing that note, 3 that was illegal and unauthorized, and if I didn't 4 give them back the note, they were going to call the 5 police. 6 While they were screaming and shouting, I was 7 begging them to keep their voices down because they 8 woke my mother up. That's all that I was doing. 9 There was -- there was a period where, yes, when my 10 mother started making her sounds about what was 11 going on, and, yes, I did go over and try to comfort 12 her, and I told her everything was going to be okay. 13 And, yes, maybe I did kiss her on -- I gave 14 her a peck on the side of the mouth to calm her down 15 while they were screaming at me to give them back 16 the note. That's what -- that's what I was doing. 17 THE COURT: You stated you don't care about 18 life anymore because of this incident. Is your son 19 worth living for or was your mother the only thing 20 important to you? 21 THE WITNESS: Yes, my son's worth -- he's 22 worth living for, but my mother was the most 23 important person in my life, and they were accusing 24 me of sexually molesting my mother. 25 And, no, I don't feel like living. I want 2166 1 them to pay for what they did. I want to make sure 2 they never do it again. And they know what they 3 did. They know it. And this is all a game, and 4 they're going to do it again. And smile, 5 Ms. Marshall, go ahead, because that's what you've 6 been doing throughout the whole trial. 7 MS. MARSHALL: Objection. 8 THE WITNESS: All of you were smiling. You 9 were smiling when I came by when I was picketing 10 you, sir. 11 MS. MARSHALL: Your Honor. 12 THE COURT: Mr. Destefano. 13 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. 14 MS. MARSHALL: May we approach? 15 THE WITNESS: They're the executives. I'm the 16 little person. 17 THE COURT: Mr. Destefano? 18 THE WITNESS: Yes. 19 THE COURT: I'm going to ask you to please 20 maintain -- 21 THE WITNESS: I apologize. I -- 22 THE COURT: Mr. Destefano, I'm going -- 23 THE WITNESS: I -- we do this all the time. 24 THE COURT: I'm going to have you removed from 25 the courtroom; do you understand me? You are not to 2167 1 speak. I have asked you not to speak, and at this 2 time, I am ordering you to say nothing further until 3 you're addressed by the Court. Do you understand 4 me? 5 THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honor. 6 (Bench conference.) 7 MS. MARSHALL: We move for a mistrial, Your 8 Honor. I believe that this outburst is prejudicial. 9 He wasn't answering the question, and his pointing 10 the fingers, accusing people at the counsel table 11 of -- 12 THE COURT: I'm going to reserve on that. 13 I'll hear more about that. I'd like to get through 14 this, and I'll hear more on your motion and ask you 15 to just hold on to that and I'll consider it. 16 MR. TOWNSEND: And I need to consult with my 17 client on that. 18 THE COURT: I will give you the opportunity to 19 do that, yes, sir. 20 (Open court.) 21 THE COURT: You admit that during your 22 mother's initial visit to Florida Hospital, you laid 23 in bed with her, quote, With your foot dangling, 24 closed quotes. If your mother did not pose any 25 threat to wander off as she used to, what was the 2168 1 purpose of lying in bed with her in a hospital? 2 THE WITNESS: I was exhausted and I had just 3 come back from a long motorcycle trip. I think I 4 came back from DeLand, and I was tired, and my 5 mother motioned me to come over. She just said, 6 come lay down. And there was enough room, and I 7 just -- I just -- it wasn't even a supine position. 8 I just was exhausted, and I just laid down on the 9 bed. 10 I was fully clothed. I had my motorcycle 11 helmet. I was going to go to the chair, but I knew 12 she wanted me to be close to her. And I just laid 13 down, and we were having a conversation. We were 14 just talking. It was a long trip. I was laying on 15 my back. There's nothing sexual about it. There 16 was no -- that's all I did is I just laid down. She 17 knew who I was. She loved me. She -- 18 THE COURT: Mr. Destefano, at present, how do 19 you subside financially? How do you support your 20 son? 21 THE WITNESS: I send my son money whenever I 22 can. The mother of my child wanted to have a child, 23 and she said she wanted to take care of him. He's 24 down in Miami. He comes up to visit me, but there 25 was never -- there's no problem as far as any 2169 1 support. Do I -- there's just no problem with 2 support. I send him money when I can. 3 My fight is with them. It's taking up my 4 time, and it's taking up my life. And I'm still 5 going -- whatever happens here, I'm still going to 6 make sure they never do this to anyone else again. 7 That's my only focus in life because that will 8 destroy someone. That will get people killed. You 9 say that to the wrong person, that's going -- 10 THE COURT: Mr. Destefano. At this time, I'm 11 going to ask the jury to step into the jury room, 12 and we'll take a brief recess. 13 THE WITNESS: I thought I was answering the 14 question, Your Honor. 15 (Jury exits.) 16 THE COURT: Be seated. Do you wish to address 17 the Court at this time, Ms. Marshall? 18 MS. MARSHALL: Your Honor, I just had an 19 objection to Mr. Destefano's long speech that was 20 not responsive to the question that was asked to 21 him, and I just want to preserve my objection. And 22 I understand that we're going to take that issue of 23 the mistrial up later. I just wanted to make sure I 24 inserted that so I wasn't waiving anything. 25 MR. TOWNSEND: It's my understanding that we 2170 1 are going to -- you will entertain mistrial orders 2 on this subject later, and we're not waiving them 3 also. 4 THE COURT: Let's take a brief recess. 5 Mr. Osborne, I'm going to ask you to communicate to 6 your client how close we are to the line here. And 7 the Court is not going to tolerate any further 8 outbursts from him, in particular in the tone that 9 was last articulated by him from the witness stand. 10 And in the event that -- I understand I might 11 hear motions for mistrial. In addition to that, I 12 expect any further outbursts are going to be met 13 with a serious admonition from the bench in the 14 presence of the jury again. The consequences of 15 that you may discuss with your client, but let's 16 take a brief recess. 17 (A 10-minute recess was had.) 18 THE COURT: All right. Be seated, please. 19 There was one other question that was asked by the 20 jury that I did not address with counsel that I 21 didn't see that was written on the back of one of 22 these papers. And Counsel, you don't need to 23 approach. No jury's here. 24 Did your mother have any sores before you left 25 for Orlando for two to three weeks? Any objection 2171 1 to that? 2 MR. OSBORNE: No objection. 3 MS. MARSHALL: No objection. 4 MR. TOWNSEND: No objection. 5 THE COURT: Anything else before we bring the 6 jury in? 7 MR. OSBORNE: No, Your Honor. 8 MS. MARSHALL: No, Your Honor. 9 THE COURT: I trust you have underscored the 10 importance to your client of remaining calm and not 11 speaking other than to answer the question asked? 12 MR. OSBORNE: Yes, ma'am. 13 THE COURT: Okay. And the consequences of 14 that to be clear will be further admonition to the 15 witness in the presence of the jury. Does your 16 client understand that, Mr. Osborne? 17 MR. OSBORNE: He does, Your Honor. 18 THE COURT: Bring in the jury. 19 (Jury enters.) 20 THE COURT: Mr. Destefano, who stated you, 21 quote, Sodomized, closed quotes, your mother? Why 22 did you choose to state that on your picket sign? 23 THE WITNESS: I felt when you took all the 24 defamatory matter in context, lying on top, French 25 kissing, inserting my finger into my mother's 2172 1 rectum, bright red blood, intimately kissing, 2 passionately kissing, laying on top for two to three 3 minutes, anal hemorrhage, inserting an anoscope into 4 my mother's rectum to check for any trauma, when I 5 put all that together, to me that spells out sodomy. 6 And you can only put so many words in a sign. 7 I couldn't fit -- if I was to list all the words, 8 everything they said, I was just trying to condense 9 it into one word, and that's the word that came to 10 me was sodomy because that's to me what they were 11 saying I did to my mother. 12 THE COURT: Did your mother have any sores 13 before you left for Orlando for two to three weeks? 14 THE WITNESS: My mother -- when I first went 15 to Arizona the first time, my mother never had any 16 sores up until the point I put her in the foster 17 care facility, and the only time she developed all 18 these ulcers was when she was in the care at the 19 adult care facility when I had to come back to 20 Orlando. 21 I came back originally for four weeks. My 22 trip was cut short because friends had called me. 23 They said they were concerned. They went to visit, 24 and they felt she wasn't being cared for the way I 25 was caring for her. So I cut my month short to 2173 1 three weeks, and when I went back, that's when all 2 the sores and ulcers appeared. It was at that home 3 she was at. They just didn't care for her. They 4 just let her lay in bed for three weeks. 5 They didn't change her. I paid them 1500 6 dollars by check, and I gave them another 1500 7 dollars cash to take us -- I paid them double just 8 to take especially good care of my mother and they 9 didn't. They just let her lay in the bed. I'm just 10 speculating, but I'm assuming that's how she got the 11 sores on her heels from staying in the same spot for 12 hours. 13 THE COURT: Any further questions from the 14 jury? 15 THE JURORS: (Shakes heads.) 16 THE COURT: Mr. Osborne, do you care to ask 17 your client any further questions? 18 MR. OSBORNE: No, Your Honor. 19 MS. MARSHALL: I just have a couple, Your 20 Honor. 21 - - - - - 22 EXAMINATION 23 BY MS. MARSHALL: 24 Q Mr. Destefano, you noted that the heel wound 25 on your mother was almost healed by the time she got to 2174 1 Sunbelt, correct? 2 A I think that's correct, yes. 3 Q And you knew that the note that you had signed 4 didn't mean anything, correct? 5 A Could you please rephrase the question? 6 Q Well, I believe that you testified in response 7 to the jury's question that the note that you had signed 8 or that Carol Boze had signed didn't mean anything 9 because she came to the facility with decubitus ulcers, 10 correct? 11 A Right. It had no significance to the ulcer or 12 any type of lawsuit that could be pending from that note, 13 correct. 14 Q And you understood that, correct? 15 A I understood what? 16 Q Well, you knew that that was -- that was the 17 case when you had her sign the note, didn't you? 18 A I didn't have her sign the note. I -- I asked 19 her to please put the dressing on or sign the note. She 20 chose to sign the note. 21 Q Okay. And you left the facility before the 22 dressing was changed; is that correct? You said that you 23 put a bootie on her and left for the day after you got 24 the note? 25 A Something to that effect, yes. 2175 1 Q Now, Mr. Destefano, on September 22nd, 1999, 2 you had not obtained copies of all the medical records, 3 had you? 4 A I'm not sure. 5 MS. MARSHALL: Thank you. 6 MR. TOWNSEND: Nothing further, Judge. 7 THE COURT: Return to your seat, 8 Mr. Destefano. 9 (Continued to Volume XVI) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2176 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 STATE OF FLORIDA) 3 COUNTY OF ORANGE) 4 I, LAURA J. LANDERMAN, R.M.R., C.R.R., certify that 5 I was authorized to and did stenographically report the 6 foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a true 7 and accurate record. 8 Dated this 16th day of June, 2006. 9 10 11 ___________________________________ 12 LAURA J. LANDERMAN, R.M.R., C.R.R. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25